Tieflings Number 2

[HATEFACE]

quick question: Is it allowable for people to make plane-touched to beta test with? Was the decision pertaining only to live server characters?

I think the question is pertinent as there is beta testing to be done... and the more the merrier..

In beta, anything goes.

If there are the resources available, I think I'm not leaning too far out the window by saying that the DM Administration would be appreciative of any input and experience gleaned as to the ramifications of planetouched in game (my personal guess is: more effort, but considerably less than underdark / LA>+1 races).

Testing is testing. You can make dwarf barbs named Pain Beast or run zombie brothels on a beta server, too *coughs and whistles innocently*.

*edited by Wynna

Female Gnome, Ftr1: 12 Hp.

Str. 12
Dex. 16
Con. 14
Int. 8
Wis. 8
Cha. 10

Skills and Feats:
An Hero: +10, Balance +5, Bluff +2, DESU +10, Longcat -5

Cleave, Great Cleave, Omg that cleave is way better than those other two.

[Mikayla]

indio:

Admin need to step in and take the reins of what is becoming the most divisive issue on our table, and frankly, there are bigger things to be worrying about.

Trying to sweep truly divisive issues under the rug is generally an exercise in futility - one need only look at these two threads, and all the threads that preceded them. Issues such as this need to be dealt with in a reasoned, well-thought out manner, otherwise, they just keep going and going.

While there certainly are other issues facing ALFA, 'importance' is a relative term - what is important to one may not be important to others. An obvious counter argument to that is 'if the servers don't get built, no one will be allowed to play ANYTHING' - fair enough, but the servers getting built is not really in question here. Our servers will get built, or not, regardless of whether Souvarine, Veilan and other want to go on debating the availability of planetouched. In short, despite its divisiveness, this argument has little bearing on the building of our servers - save for the time that our builders spend reading it (unless of course we actually lose builders because they wanted to play/DM planetouched and we don't offer that now).

[Wynna]

As long as people keep it from flaming, they may continue to debate as long as they want. I've been told that many people aren't reading the thread anymore, which is certainly a viable option if the topic has become a dead horse to them.

I certainly read it, in the hopes that something new will be introduced, something along the lines of an implementation proposal, including estimation of manhours required to script a workable global plane-touched solution, an offer to do the scripting and a schedule by which proof of concept may be seen. The aspects that I can think of that require addressing before they can be considered new evidence and reason for a reopening of a case include PC models, NPC scripts, KOS scripts, repulsion scripts, new areas for plane-touched enclaves, DM perception that plane-touched are a problem to deal with and a reasonable plan for dealing with any potential over-population by plane-touched. I know I don't have the scripting ability to address a tenth of the technical aspect, and less time in which to do so. I can think of only a handful of people who might have the ability, and they, like me, are busy building the basic servers, which I know I do 4-6 hours a day, every weekday.

Give our builders and tech team some time to do what is on their plate. During that time, development of a global tech solution would be more helpful to both the plane-touched cause and the community than going over and over things here. The decision was made with the input of DMs and Admin. If you want to change their minds, do some of the work they foresee having to take on. If you want a ruling reconsidered, bring something new to the case. Otherwise, I won't be overruling prior decision making processes arbitrarily.

Helios, I have edited your post to remove references to "Your Mom." This is your first warning. Test courtesy again and I will recommend to Infrastructure that you receive an Infrastructure strike.

[JaydeMoon]

Awwww. But we LOVE Helios's mom!

Give our builders and tech team some time to do what is on their plate. During that time, development of a global tech solution would be more helpful to both the plane-touched cause and the community than going over and over things here. The decision was made with the input of DMs and Admin. If you want to change their minds, do some of the work they foresee having to take on. If you want a ruling reconsidered, bring something new to the case. Otherwise, I won't be overruling prior decision making processes arbitrarily.

+1

Instead of trying to pound it into people that their concerns don't really exist, are wrong, fallacious, incorrect, stupid, dumB, petty, obnoxious, etc... address them.

Assume that they are valid concerns and address them. Then, you've knocked out whatever leg they had to stand on and you get your plane-touched.

No DMs want to DM plane-touched? I found a bunch right here!

Too much trouble for current builders and scripters to work on content for plane-touched? I found a bunch of people who that's ALL they want to work on!

Not enough canon information on how to include plane-touched? I found all these books right here!

Think too many people are going to play plane-touched, creating a lop-sided demographic? I ran a poll and found out only 5% of players absolutely HAVE to play plane-touched, the rest wanting to play drow or svirfneblin.

Etc.

[Zelknolf]

PC models,

Nothing stopping ALFA from taking the exsiting NWN2 models and saying "Hey, this is how these guys look in our version of FR." -- we've a long-standing tradition of doing it with the giant half-orc arms, the elf chicken legs, and the halfling mustaches in NWN1.

NPC scripts,

Something more specific than this? Like a conditional script for conversations to check for planetouched?

Code: Select all

int StartingConditional()
{
    if(GetRacialType(GetPCSpeaker()) == RACIAL_TYPE_WHATEVER) return TRUE;
    return FALSE;
}

Not sure what all else would need to be scripted. Outsiders with the native subtype are humans for almost everything. I think spells like protection from evil could prevent bodily contact from one of them if it was evil (but don't quote me - it might say 'summoned' in the spell desc somewhere)?

KOS scripts,

I don't think we have a hope of making any KOS scripts work in 100% IC ways, (after all, a tiefling in full plate and a burgonet would look like a human in full plate and a burgonet. Claim to worship Helm and sensible guards wouldn't ask that the helmet come off.) though it is very feasible to make tokens to alter faction attitudes toward holders of said token. Add into the OnClientEnter...

Code: Select all

if(GetIsObjectValid(GetItemPossessedBy(GetEnteringObject(), "defender_hates"))) SetStandardFactionReputation(STANDARD_FACTION_DEFENDER, 0, GetEnteringObject());

The non-defender and non-hostile AIs tend to do less of the KOSing when they see something hostile. But, depending on how their AIs are set up, a similarly tiny addition could make commoners scream and run, too.

repulsion scripts,

Code: Select all

location lLocation = GetLocation(oPC);
vector vPosition = GetPositionFromLocation(lLocation);
int iY = vPosition.y-(5.0*sin(GetFacing(oPC));
int iX = vPosition.x-(5.0*cos(GetFacing(oPC));
vector vNewPosition = (iX, iY, vPosition.z);
location lNewLocation = Location(GetArea(oPC), vNewPosition, GetFacing(oPC));
SendMessageToPC(oPC, "[blah] throws you back with impressive force!");
AssignCommand(oPC, JumpToLocation(lNewLocation));
DelayCommand(0.1f, ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_TEMPORARY, EffectKnockdown(), oPC, 3.0f));

Get object oPC how you like, change [blah] to whatever's doing the dirty work... and I don't have much experience with NWN2 script, but EffectKnockdown might be a different function.

new areas for plane-touched enclaves,

Can't help ya there. I tend to think the idea is about as silly as "adventurer guilds," buuuut I suppose those exist to.

DM perception that plane-touched are a problem to deal with and a reasonable plan for dealing with any potential over-population by plane-touched.

So write up a policy that lets the DM population control the planetouched population. We get incredibly crappy characters all the time, and currently we tend to either ignore them and hope they go away or kill them. Honestly, an overt policy of HDMs being able to essentially veto characters before, say, 4th level (that way we know a DM has seen the character at least to validate) could probably save us plenty of situations where the lame get to high levels and little is done because it is, technically, griefing.

[Mayhem]

If only there were some way in which those who wanted planetouch included could have gotten to vote in the original survey...

[HATEFACE]

If only there were some way in which those who wanted planetouch included could have gotten to vote in the original survey...

That's a great idea! A public planetouched poll! Closed polling is only for frat boys and presidential campaigns. I second an open poll on planetouched watchamado's.

[indio]

indio:

Admin need to step in and take the reins of what is becoming the most divisive issue on our table, and frankly, there are bigger things to be worrying about.

Trying to sweep truly divisive issues under the rug is generally an exercise in futility - one need only look at these two threads, and all the threads that preceded them. Issues such as this need to be dealt with in a reasoned, well-thought out manner, otherwise, they just keep going and going.

I don't mean sweep it unde a rug.

I mean with the latest charter ammendment complete, let's see admin deal with the issue once and for all.

[FanaticusIncendi]

I certainly read it, in the hopes that something new will be introduced, something along the lines of an implementation proposal, including estimation of manhours required to script a workable global plane-touched solution, an offer to do the scripting and a schedule by which proof of concept may be seen.

Bravo, Wynna.

All of you who are so dying to see planetouched in step up to the plate and make a proper proposal. Without one, you're just bitching and always will be.

This is a volunteer community, remember? If you have something you're dying to see happen, you need to be more proactive then what's been observed in this thread.

[HATEFACE]

Bravo, Wynna.

All of you who are so dying to see planetouched in step up to the plate and make a proper proposal. Without one, you're just bitching and always will be.

This is a volunteer community, remember? If you have something you're dying to see happen, you need to be more proactive then what's been observed in this thread.

So if we can get 15 or so out of the 20 ALFA members to agree on one thing, put it into a "proper proposal," submit it, sit back, relax, and wait. You think ALFA would include planetouched?




. . .

[ThinkTank]

[Amar]

Paraphrased from Wynna of what she needs to see Before Reconsidering Planetouched.

implementation proposal

estimation of manhours required to script a workable global plane-touched solution

an offer to do the scripting and a schedule by which proof of concept may be seen.

PC models
NPC scripts
KOS scripts
repulsion scripts
new areas for plane-touched enclaves

DM perception that plane-touched are a problem to deal with and a reasonable plan for dealing with any potential over-population by plane-touched

I cannot personally offer the scripting, as I can't stand the stuff. Though I know there are talented individuals out there willing to do so.

However judging by the scripts that NWN uses, I think a global solution to the plane touched problem, Including NPC scripts, KOS scripts, and repulsion scripts would end up taking about 2 months for one person to write.

KOS Scripts would basically entail first checking if the PC was a planetouched. Then finding out if they are disguised. Adding a disguise skill would be appropriate (if its not already in). Yes, you may be wearing full plate, but its still not a good disguise unless you know how to use it. So, the test for this could simply use a disguise check, with an additional value equal to their base (non-magical) Armor Bonus to AC.

Code: Select all

IF (PC.Planetouched==True) {
     IF ((PC.SkillCheck(Disguise)+PC.BaseArmorBonus) <= NPC.SkillCheck(Spot)) Then KillPC();
     }

Thus is a simple KOS script that doesnt end up with guards attacking disguised PCs. Players found not actually in disguise and abusing this mechanic is metagaming and is another issue entirely, so shouldnt come into play here.

Repulsion Scripts could be set similar to the KOS script, by lowering faction a small amount unless disguised ( not enough to typically set someone hostile, but enough to lower faction standing), or there could be a no-drop item given to all planetouched that OOCly identified for scripting purposes their planetouched type. When they enter the server for the first time, you can run a script that modifies their faction standing by an amount on a per-faction basis. It would take a few hours to set this up, and it could be an easy template where the designer of the server can plug in the faction names and modifiers into the script and be ready to go.
Again, being able to work similar to the KOS system as well as the OnFirstServerVisit() sort of thing (not sure how thats done but i know it can be).




New areas for planetouched enclaves:
Do they deserve enclaves or special areas? They are sparse. They shouldnt be given special treatment or locations. They are no different than any other PC, just have a bunch of social stigma and a +1 ECL.

Planetouched Overpopulation: 2 players per server may play planetouched. Planetouched Characters require the approval of at least 1 DM of the server they will be played on, and cannot be approved if the cap has already been filled. This does not restrict travel options, just the total #of planetouched as related to the total amount of space that ALFA is currently representing. If planetouched are congregating on single servers then theyll likely be found out, disliked, and offed by someone or another. Planetouched PC names will be entered into a DM accessible wiki by the sponsoring DM,

I can get an implementation proposal done in about a month or so if requested.


-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the more individual note:
Planetouched PCs really dont require any more or less work from the DM team. People may say they require specialized situations to thrive in, or custom designed campaign scenarios to be active in. But if you arent already building customized and detailed campaign to the need of your players as is then you are not a DM that I would want to play under. You also have to realize that these PCs of notable background tend to create their own plot between themselves and other PCs. Intense drama and roleplay and some very immersive stories can come out of just having them around, with little need to push them in any sort of direction.

There are plenty of character concepts that require far MORE work than most planetouched would, examples Ive played:

The Loremaster:
0 combat ability. Level 1 Bard. Low strength, low dex, low con. Heavy Int and Cha based. Goes into wizard and prepares only information gathering (divination) spells. Useful only for large Lore checks and a cheerful song. Created in Sembia, still lives - somewhere, Shadowdale I think.

The Prostitute:
Little to no combat ability, intense social stigma to the point of treachery and disgust by all she comes across. Only usefullness: Intense roleplay and interpersonal relationships between a small set of PCs. Some of the best story I ever got. Had anything ever actually attacked her, she would have been dead on the spot. She was there to tend the wounds of her many lovers as they returned from battle. Died to a bear in the woods of Shadowdale. Created in Waterdeep.

The Compulsive Thief:
A little hin rogue that steals everything she gets her hands on without even realizing shes doing it. And assumes ownership of anything she finds in her possession. Small combat ability, and is consciously unaware of any of her skills. She wouldnt be able to pick a lock if asked, or break in if required, She was unable to do anything that was directly required of her, the subtle routes only came to her by instinct, rather than instruction. Created and died on Waterdeep.

A sun elf paladin of Kelemvor:
Required intense aid and help from the DM team to keep reactions appropriate and keep things coming to me for what and who I was. The shadowdale team of old can vouch for how much work went into this character on their side alone, and I can tell from my end just how much was tailored to accompany me. Was one of my favourite PCs here.
Created in Waterdeep, died in the Arena facing off against Lak'shmi to the death.

[Thangorn]

I certainly read it, in the hopes that something new will be introduced, something along the lines of an implementation proposal, including estimation of manhours required to script a workable global plane-touched solution, an offer to do the scripting and a schedule by which proof of concept may be seen.

Bravo, Wynna.

All of you who are so dying to see planetouched in step up to the plate and make a proper proposal. Without one, you're just bitching and always will be.

This is a volunteer community, remember? If you have something you're dying to see happen, you need to be more proactive then what's been observed in this thread.

+1 FI

I intend to work on such a proposition as briefly outlined by Wynna but not until my first project is at least at Beta 2. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated..

[JaydeMoon]

If I already got tiefling approval on server X, can I not travel to server y if they have two tielfings there? Do I need DM approval to travel to another server?

Allow tieflings or don't. Deal with 'overpopulation' if it actually happens. KISS

[Mulu]

I certainly read it, in the hopes that something new will be introduced, something along the lines of an implementation proposal, including estimation of manhours required to script a workable global plane-touched solution, an offer to do the scripting and a schedule by which proof of concept may be seen.

Implemetation proposal: We roleplay here, no scripting is necessary. Manhours required: Zero.

Again, the assumption is that planetouched are something bad to be avoided. I just don't see it. We don't have any of these so-called "solutions" for any other race in ALFA.