THE Lists for the Masses

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Arianna
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THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Arianna »

I would like Players to list their ideas for solutions to issues , offers to help with specific issues ,and notes for any other issues that need fixing in this thread

Also wants and desires for new stuff not already on the list in TO DO thread
https://www.alandfaraway.info/phpBB3/vi ... =3&t=53144
please read whats already being looked at before posting for that same thing yet Again


I will take stuff from this thread and added to the the TO DO thread as applicable
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Mick »

Are you asking for tech fixes, or things that will increase enjoyment of the game and participation on the NWN2 side here?
Talk less. Listen more.

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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by khaevil »

Modify the mounting script to:
mark which cloak, if any, the PC was wearing before they mounted
copy the item properties from the cloak they had on to the temporary cloak used for the horse graphic
add negative weight to the cloak to represent the ability of the horse to carry weight
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by khaevil »

Fix spell resistance for items.
SR from items only works once, this can be overcome by checking for the highest SR on an item when equipping/unquipping items.
I believe SR does work for the hidden hide slot, so duplicating the property there may work.
It could be applied as a spell effect, it will show up with an icon on the portrait which isn't seamless.
It could be handled by replacing the two built in functions that handle SR checks for spells.

I'm a fan of replacing the built in functions, because the other options only fix the item bug and there are other bugs with spell resistance. I like solutions that fix as many issues as possible at once instead of making bandaids that address one issue and are useless for addressing related bugs. If all bugs are fixed it results in less code in the end, and servers are complicated enough to sift through without having to find all the SR related fixes in multiple places.
Breaches and similar effects don't lower racial SR.
Red wizards are only supposed to get a bonus to overcome SR on their specialization school.
Warlock evocations overcoming SR has multiple bugs.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by khaevil »

Add counterspelling.

There is a script command to counter a spell, though I'm not sure if it actually works. It might makes much of this very simple.

This can be done with X2PreSpellCastCode() that is called by all spells as a workaround. A custom counterspell action would make sure they can counter, then assign an action to make the PC busy and flag that the spell will be countered for the precast code to cause it to be countered.

While a toggled mode would be simplest, I would prefer to also have a gui window option for selective counterspelling. If their target is casting a spell they can counter the spell icon for that spell pops up as well as a few icons for suitable counters. Then they can click on a suitable counter to counter it, or just ignore it and maybe take a regular action. Indiscriminate countering can also be set still. But this requires being able to recognize the spell when casting starts, not when it goes off.

Issue that I'm not sure how to address is the game already makes spellcraft checks, but I don't know how to use the result from that. So it would end up being the counterspell check has nothing to do with the normal spell recognition. I'm not sure how to work around this. Replacing the normal spellcraft skill with a custom skill and emulating the normal functions runs into the same problem of I'm not sure if there's an event to link into when the casting starts, and that's where the check is made.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by khaevil »

The crafting should be automated. DMs have enough to do without dealing with crafting minutiae that should be scripted.

The specifics aren't important really, but here's a proposal to emulate what I see on SRD20:

2DAs of things that are made with each of the crafting feats including required rare materials, additional cost in gold and xp, class, caster level and spell requirements. A custom scriptvar should also be included for checking odd requirements that aren't otherwise covered. Raw items are generated using the feat which triggers the crafting script. I suggest the feat brings up a conversation with options for all raw items the player can make with what they have on them when used on themself.

What is initially crafted isn't the final item, but a raw item. The caster has to progress on the item by spending one day per 1000 gp value, easily tracked as a local variable on a temporary item that when complete generates the final item. They can make as many raw items as they want, but they can't actually create anything useful faster than 1000 gp a day.

Progress is made by using the feat on the raw item, which makes sure they meet all requirements so players can't make raw items for others to finish who shouldn't be able to contribute. Crafting progress available is tracked by a shared variable, no simultaneously working multiple full-time jobs. This would allow speedier creation by multiple crafters all putting their effort in on the same item. I suggest the gold and xp cost be distributed across the crafting process so if multiple crafters join together to make something the xp cost is split up by effort. I also suggest the spell requirements be handled by placing a local variable on the raw item that it needs a certain spell cast on it, which is removed when the appropriate spell is cast on it by someone who meets the crafting requirements.

Since it doesn't make any sense that they are crafting while also roleplaying or adventuring, I think the progress available should update only on login. There could be some special workshop or something to also update if people really want to roleplay sitting around a workshop crafting.
I don't think players should be able to accumulate craft time until they finally decide they want to make something. So I suggest that available craft time on login doesn't accumulate through multiple logins except for the fractional part of a craft. If you had 1.5 crafts when you last logged in and you were away long enough to get 1.5 crafts, you now have 2.0 crafts not 3.0.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Arianna »

khaevil wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:10 pm
Fix spell resistance for items.
SR from items only works once, this can be overcome by checking for the highest SR on an item when equipping/unquipping items.
I believe SR does work for the hidden hide slot, so duplicating the property there may work.
It could be applied as a spell effect, it will show up with an icon on the portrait which isn't seamless.
It could be handled by replacing the two built in functions that handle SR checks for spells.

I'm a fan of replacing the built in functions, because the other options only fix the item bug and there are other bugs with spell resistance. I like solutions that fix as many issues as possible at once instead of making bandaids that address one issue and are useless for addressing related bugs. If all bugs are fixed it results in less code in the end, and servers are complicated enough to sift through without having to find all the SR related fixes in multiple places.
Breaches and similar effects don't lower racial SR.
Red wizards are only supposed to get a bonus to overcome SR on their specialization school.
Warlock evocations overcoming SR has multiple bugs.
If you had noticed this is already on our TO LIST OF ISSUES and no it doesn't work right for the hidden hide slot any more than it does for the players in a cloak slot. Warlocks are broken as a class in general and we have removed them from availability. This is evidently a Known major NWN2 bug not just ALFA thing so we are going to have to look into some sort of work around for it.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Arianna »

khaevil wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:42 pm
The crafting should be automated. DMs have enough to do without dealing with crafting minutiae that should be scripted.

The specifics aren't important really, but here's a proposal to emulate what I see on SRD20:

2DAs of things that are made with each of the crafting feats including required rare materials, additional cost in gold and xp, class, caster level and spell requirements. A custom scriptvar should also be included for checking odd requirements that aren't otherwise covered. Raw items are generated using the feat which triggers the crafting script. I suggest the feat brings up a conversation with options for all raw items the player can make with what they have on them when used on themself.

What is initially crafted isn't the final item, but a raw item. The caster has to progress on the item by spending one day per 1000 gp value, easily tracked as a local variable on a temporary item that when complete generates the final item. They can make as many raw items as they want, but they can't actually create anything useful faster than 1000 gp a day.

Progress is made by using the feat on the raw item, which makes sure they meet all requirements so players can't make raw items for others to finish who shouldn't be able to contribute. Crafting progress available is tracked by a shared variable, no simultaneously working multiple full-time jobs. This would allow speedier creation by multiple crafters all putting their effort in on the same item. I suggest the gold and xp cost be distributed across the crafting process so if multiple crafters join together to make something the xp cost is split up by effort. I also suggest the spell requirements be handled by placing a local variable on the raw item that it needs a certain spell cast on it, which is removed when the appropriate spell is cast on it by someone who meets the crafting requirements.

Since it doesn't make any sense that they are crafting while also roleplaying or adventuring, I think the progress available should update only on login. There could be some special workshop or something to also update if people really want to roleplay sitting around a workshop crafting.
I don't think players should be able to accumulate craft time until they finally decide they want to make something. So I suggest that available craft time on login doesn't accumulate through multiple logins except for the fractional part of a craft. If you had 1.5 crafts when you last logged in and you were away long enough to get 1.5 crafts, you now have 2.0 crafts not 3.0.
I would love to have crafting totally automated but without having a thousand different blue prints to cover every possible crafting combination that could be made by said crafters. The specifics are very important because, I have people tell me we need to do this or this or that but then give me no solid foundation on HOW that might be accomplished. We also want to keep things within a certain level of control to DMs so not everyone is running around with +3 enchanted gear.

As I have said numerous times . . . I am NOT a scripter . . . .
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Arianna »

khaevil wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:32 pm
Modify the mounting script to:
mark which cloak, if any, the PC was wearing before they mounted
copy the item properties from the cloak they had on to the temporary cloak used for the horse graphic
add negative weight to the cloak to represent the ability of the horse to carry weight


Horse is not a pack animal to give you more spots to carry items, if you get off the horse than any items you picked up while on the horse is now going to weigh you down. Negative weight would be easy enough to accomplish though but not the transferring of properties. That is likely to be extremely glitchy and possibly become a easy item to exploit or just plain break.

However still looking into the possibility of Riding horses that are not just cloak, but an actual mounted animal.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Arianna »

Mick wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:35 am
Are you asking for tech fixes, or things that will increase enjoyment of the game and participation on the NWN2 side here?
BOTH
WITHIN ALFA PILLARS AND STANDARDS AND RULES

So I am not looking to open the arguments about additional PCs per player or permadeath, or playing where you DM or other such things

but What needs added and fixed with what we have currently
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Ithildur »

Implement Saaz's Encounter saving system. Yes x 1000. Knowing that such a tool exists and what it can do, how much hair pulling it could've saved me in the past, I will probably wait until it's in place before I ever DM encounters again.

+1 on the idea regarding horse (cloaks). Someday maybe non cloak/improved horse system will exist; maybe. Until then it seems sensible to improve existing system especially if it's a relatively simple (though perhaps cludgy) tweak. I have no problem at all with added carrying capacity for having a horse around; saddebags and things of that sort are commonplace. A horse definitely increases carrying capacity - this is completely reasonable. If you 'dismount' with the proposed system the cloak comes off and the additional carrying capacity is suddenly gone so you're weighed down again. Arguably this isn't realistic as you should still be able to leave some heavy stuff on the horse and have it nearby/within reasonable access reach. Still, better than nothing. If a PC has to deal with some of the disadvantages of a horse (there are many in both RL and alfa), they should get the benefits too.

Spell Resistance items - until the pricing is adjusted to be less stupid it's not worth the effort required imo to fix this issue. No one buys them in alfa except new player and suckers, not because it's bugged, but because the value per our pricing is so messed up. It's like paying 5000gp for a suit of mw scale mail; absolutely insane.

While I would love to see a functioning counterspell mechanic... NWN2 does have carryover stuff from nwn1 (which had a more or less fully functioning counterspell mechanic) but my understanding is the effort required is not trivial. I thoroughly enjoy playing casters and seeing spells being used (this is a DnD based world after all) but otoh... caster NPCs are a significantly lesser threat than they should be in ALFA to begin with (for numerous reasons) so I don't expect a huge impact on actual gameplay.

Fully automated crafting... will have a huge impact in gameplay. It's an area that, if not kept an eye on by DM, can potentially completely break apart a game's CR (unless DM is on top of things and adjusts accordingly) in a 3.5e based game. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but this needs to be kept in view.

Increase (slightly?) the number of repeatable static quests that are NOT PATROL/MAIL RUN sorts of things, and add some randomization to the reward for completing a CHAIN of them, so that there's a chance for a somewhat significant and pleasant surprise each time. i.e. a mw weapon or armor at the end of a low lvl chain, a pot of CSW, a wand, etc. i.e. something more interesting than *hands you 50gp*

I would personally love to see improved/tweaked AI, especially (but not exclusively) for caster NPCs. I was quite willing and happy to collaborate with someone more scripting savvy to work on this area over the summer/fall when I had much more free time.


The loot tool needs to be looked at. From what I was told in Discord by Arianna, it currently does not follow the DM guidelines for loot, apparently using the lowest lvl PC in party rather than average party level to determine loot value. Not good if you have fairly significant level spread (as often happens in alfa).

Tweak Zspawns. This was both a great boon and very frustrating tool at times for me while DMing, as it meant I could use creatures/NPCs that were not limited to what we had in the module without cracking open the Toilset to create creatures, waiting for module update, etc. However it does need refinement in a number of areas... happy to list these/detail further if this goes anywhere.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Arianna »

Ithildur wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:12 am
Implement Saaz's Encounter saving system. Yes x 1000. Knowing that such a tool exists and what it can do, how much hair pulling it could've saved me in the past, I will probably wait until it's in place before I ever DM encounters again.
AS I said in my OTHER POST this is planned but TOTALLY contingent on getting more space on TSM FIRST.
Ithildur wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:12 am
+1 on the idea regarding horse (cloaks). Someday maybe non cloak/improved horse system will exist; maybe. Until then it seems sensible to improve existing system especially if it's a relatively simple (though perhaps cludgy) tweak. I have no problem at all with added carrying capacity for having a horse around; saddebags and things of that sort are commonplace. A horse definitely increases carrying capacity - this is completely reasonable. If you 'dismount' with the proposed system the cloak comes off and the additional carrying capacity is suddenly gone so you're weighed down again. Arguably this isn't realistic as you should still be able to leave some heavy stuff on the horse and have it nearby/within reasonable access reach. Still, better than nothing. If a PC has to deal with some of the disadvantages of a horse (there are many in both RL and alfa), they should get the benefits too.
1- I am totally against using horses as portable chests to start with there are reasons PCs have weight limits. 2- the DB for them would be totally linked to the server [like chests are if the could be made into chests ] and so people would try to take them cross server only to find they emptied their bags on the trip. 3- If horses could be used as portable chests then they should be totally open to thievery as well. You can't lock your saddlebags. 4- If all this can be overcome It will still take alot of testing to prove its not exploitable especially with the cloak exchange thing. I feel that if people logged out on the horse. The server would count two cloaks and save that
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Ithildur »

Ari, the suggestion was not for horses to be used for actual storage.
It was

Code: Select all

add negative weight to the cloak to represent the ability of the horse to carry weight
It's an abstraction of the fact owning a horse should represent among other things a means to carry more weight without being encumbered. An abstraction, not a precise simulation, much like HPs representing not precise wounds or damage, but a multitude of factors that contribute to defeat in combat, armor and weapons not being really realistic, etc etc. This is literally how almost every aspect of our game and the game of DnD in general operates, some more 'realistic' or 'precise' than others, but 99% of it far, far from precise or realistic in a mechanical/physics sense.

If we're going to wait for perfect horses that can have perfect saddlebags that are completely realistic in every way mechanically, we're going to be waiting for a long, long time. We would also need to redo 95% of our game with that approach. If we don't want players to be able to carry more weight because of <insert classic alfa paranoid answer> then just say so; that actually would make more sense.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Perle »

Fully automated crafting... will have a huge impact in gameplay. It's an area that, if not kept an eye on by DM, can potentially completely break apart a game's CR (unless DM is on top of things and adjusts accordingly) in a 3.5e based game. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but this needs to be kept in view.
Some of it could be fully automated, I wager, and not break the server's power balance. What about making mundane and masterwork armor and weapons? A ranger making their own arrows? You can already buy those at the store. Maybe for special metals/wood you need to go find them -- and bring your friends.

Magical item crafting

I don't know how the system currently works for crafting, but my impression is it requires a lot of DM oversight and is a tedious mess. The goal for this is to remove the tedium and the bother. You don't have to hand the reins over entirely to the player but there has to be something a clever and motivated scripter could do to help.

Horses

This suggestion is not intended to be a portable chest. It represents the weight a horse could carry in addition to yourself. I don't see any other players using horses besides Saaz and myself, and this would provide an incentive. You're carrying that heavy supply chest to another town? Horse could help you. That sort of thing.
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Re: THE Lists for the Masses

Post by Ithildur »

To clarify my point/concerns about automated crafting was in regards specifically to magical crafting, which can easily shift the tone and difficulty of a 3.5e game dramatically. Rangers can log in day after day and craft 5000 mundane arrows if they want.

I can see potential for someone figuring out a way to game an automated system with say, mw ammo/weapon/armor (shops will gladly buy them for around 200gp a pop, cost of production is fairly trivial) but honestly, as long as the system keeps some of the core elements of 3.5e mundane crafting (time, cost, chance of failure/retry) I think it won't spiral out of control.

I'm not really a big fan of gameplay becoming focused more around crafting, especially if it's a homebrewed system (the biggest turnoff for me about NWN1 Waterdeep server is it's so focused around a quirky homebrewed crafting system). It shifts the game closer to a MMO-like feel which has historically been the antithesis of ALFA's core elements and pillars.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
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