Brainstorm: The Next Evolution of Alfa

[boombrakh]

You and I have very different experiences with ALFA, because almost all of what you're complaining about here (no changes? Yeah, no) I've seen first hand isn't true. The world changes from it's players, but there are many instances where those changes are not highly visible.

You and I have very different experiences and opinions about most things, i'd reckon. Also, the fact that you state that the changes are not highly visible is a sign that the change you are referring to is subjective. Perhaps you feel overwhelmingly satisfied with whatever it is you are referring to, but many others don't. Perhaps this is all about you feeling that you as a DM is living up to your own expectations and as such, you feel wrongfully accused. I don't really know.

If you want to RP between sessions, log in and wait for other players. Oh wait, you're not patient enough for that? That's your problem, not ALFAs.

I love that mentality. "Nuh-uh! It's not the systems fault! It's yours!". I can't speak for everyone else and won't even begin to try to. But personally, I don't login to ALFA to sit around waiting, hoping that someone else comes online. I've tried it, it sucks. Call it a product of our society if you will, the need for instant gratification, the need to entertain and to be entertained- or wait, don't. In your mind, we're never products of circumstance, It's all our faults.

[dergon darkhelm]

If we begin to encourage play of other games among alfa members I think we do so at the risk of hastening the erosion of our existing servers and their games.



When there is replacement software that we can agree as a community to convert to, or ALFA is otherwise near totally unplayed, I think it will be time for something like this. I just think we're a bit too early.

This -

We wait until (? if? ) the next viable platform presents itself and then we move over en toto.

Everytime 7 people play DDO for a few hours on a Wednesday or someone puts up the old Sembia NWN1 server for a weekend campaign we lose players from our primary platform. We should be concouraging those people to play on oone of primary NWN2 servers instead, not facilitating schism.

[Adanu]

You and I have very different experiences with ALFA, because almost all of what you're complaining about here (no changes? Yeah, no) I've seen first hand isn't true. The world changes from it's players, but there are many instances where those changes are not highly visible.

You and I have very different experiences and opinions about most things, i'd reckon. Also, the fact that you state that the changes are not highly visible is a sign that the change you are referring to is subjective. Perhaps you feel overwhelmingly satisfied with whatever it is you are referring to, but many others don't. Perhaps this is all about you feeling that you as a DM is living up to your own expectations and as such, you feel wrongfully accused. I don't really know.

If you want to RP between sessions, log in and wait for other players. Oh wait, you're not patient enough for that? That's your problem, not ALFAs.

I love that mentality. "Nuh-uh! It's not the systems fault! It's yours!". I can't speak for everyone else and won't even begin to try to. But personally, I don't login to ALFA to sit around waiting, hoping that someone else comes online. I've tried it, it sucks. Call it a product of our society if you will, the need for instant gratification, the need to entertain and to be entertained- or wait, don't. In your mind, we're never products of circumstance, It's all our faults.

If you're not patient enough to wait for people to come online, that is your decision, not anyone elses.

Trying to put words in my mouth about my expectations is anger projection, nothing more, and I won't stand for it. Speak for yourself, not for me.

When we find a platform that we can move onto that works for us, then we'll move as a community. As it is, this feels like an attempt to make ALFA a social center, not a game project.

[StephenUmpf]

We should be encouraging those people to play on one of primary NWN2 servers instead, not facilitating schism.

I agree... and to build on it, I used this line in another post, people go to crowded restaurants, they avoid empty ones.

If we only have 1 or 2 toons on at a time, we aren't buying our own product, so why would someone else.

For me, the best solution is to get the current player base and DMs to play NWN2 in ALFA regularly. From there, lets see what happens.

However, if the core issue is that you (the people reading the forums) don't like playing NWN2 in ALFA, then it might be time to create something that attracts hardcore RPers to play on and come in mass (see the crowded restaurant comment above). Personally, I still like playing and DMing NWN2 in ALFA.

Sincerely,

Me
The New Old Guy

[Ithildur]

Yeah, my reference to DDO btw, was not a serious pitch at saying that of all things would be our new main platform (*shudder* plus it's what, already as much of an old game as NWN2). Just saying experiment with it, the folks that are itchy to try new platforms, see how it goes if you want your ALFA experience to be not NWN2-centric... with the caveat that it probably won't work very well if you're trying to ALFAize it. And people might come back hungry for more of our existing game after bashing through some raids or whatever.

Fact is, unless NWN3 has much more going for it under the hood than I'm aware of, there is no platform out there currently that's more suited to AFA than NWN2.

There will come a time when NWN2 goes the way of the horse carriage, but for now, I think we can still get mileage out of it and improve things vastly still (and I don't mean so much from a technical standpoint).

[Castano]

there is nothing wrong with providing a space for ALFAns to stick together and organize themselves as they play other games. you already are playing other games. I do not foresee us building new servers on another platform again. It took us years (and mostly that was due to burnout and political issues) to get to the 4 NWN2 servers we have now.

[Veilan]

I do not foresee us building new servers on another platform again. It took us years (and mostly that was due to burnout and political issues) to get to the 4 NWN2 servers we have now.

Unless that platform is apparent as being vastly superior, I agree with the assessment. The shift to NWN 2 cost us dozens of players, and put a huge dent in our amateur ability to impact the game world through building. Which shows in today's comparably stale, small servers; respect and admiration to the people that went through the painstaking process of creating what beauty we have.

Providing a roof for people to engage in other roleplaying focussed entertainment is a good idea, but I understand dergon's concern that it might hurt the "core platform", should we take other games as excuse to stop propping it up. I did not get the notion that was the plan, however. And on the flipside, an ALFA DDO/Neverwinter/play-by-post/whatever group might conceivably attract some new people to our "main game". ALFA becoming a brand rather than a single platform would probably benefit us, if we have a strong core and agree that that core should still be the target of most of our efforts.

Cheers,

[Mikayla]

Adapt and survive - it was something I heard a lot when I was in the army, and I think it applies here (of course, I routinely heard a lot of other things in the army and the vast majority were probably not good ideas .. c'est la vie).

That said, I am not the visionary others are. Once upon a time I had a vision for what ALFA should be and I could see clearly how it should get there - some of that vision made it into the Pillars, the Charter, and certainly my time as PA. I don't know if its because I am older now, because I've gotten set into my ways with ALFA, or if I am just too damn distracted by the damn police-academy, but I don't have any great vision for ALFA anymore. That doesn't mean I don't want it to continue, I do, I very much do, I just don't know how to go about keeping ALFA afloat aside from not getting in the way of what is already working.

While I don't have any great new ideas like Cloud, I am not going to stand in the way of great new ideas and I will do what I can to help.

The one, and only, thing I have read so far that I cannot and will not support is the following:

Boom:

Remove the ban on DMing where you play. ALFA is a campaign world today, let people have fun together.

No. I absolutely cannot accept that suggestion. Maybe its my 2+ years as PA, maybe its my cynical nature, maybe its CIA mind-control satellites, but regardless, I think that is a terrible idea. I've seen too much cheating to ever think this is a good idea. ALFA may be going campaign style, but some still play ad hoc and regardless, being a DM on a server makes metagaming and other forms of cheating way, way, way too easy and tempting. This is a bad idea.

No offense Boom, in general, I consider you one of ALFA's more energetic political contributors and the rest of your suggestions are good ones - this one I cannot and will not accept however. No one in ALFA should EVER DM a server where they also have a PC. BAD. VERY BAD. TERRIBAD.

</Rant>

[Castano]

I do not support DMing where you play. That works only in a single server environment with a low membership level IMO.

[boombrakh]

Remove the ban on DMing where you play. ALFA is a campaign world today, let people have fun together.

No. I absolutely cannot accept that suggestion. Maybe its my 2+ years as PA, maybe its my cynical nature, maybe its CIA mind-control satellites, but regardless, I think that is a terrible idea. I've seen too much cheating to ever think this is a good idea. ALFA may be going campaign style, but some still play ad hoc and regardless, being a DM on a server makes metagaming and other forms of cheating way, way, way too easy and tempting. This is a bad idea.

No offense Boom, in general, I consider you one of ALFA's more energetic political contributors and the rest of your suggestions are good ones - this one I cannot and will not accept however. No one in ALFA should EVER DM a server where they also have a PC. BAD. VERY BAD. TERRIBAD.</Rant>

I hear you Mikayla, and turn back the clock a few years and I was right there next to you. But having been here the past few years, and having been a part of ALFA during the great years, I've come to understand that my "wants" for ALFA aren't my "needs". And rules in a community can apparently change over time. Take this and factor in the fact that it is indeed very much a campaign world we play in these days, I don't see why it can't be used by friends to play together regardless of player/dm constallation.

What it always comes down to, is trust. And I don't know who I trust in this community to be able to handle the responsibility, but that shouldn't be a reason to disallow it. It should be a reason to let those who can, be allowed to. Hell, if there was one person or two persons able to handle the responsibility, i'd let them do it. It it was twenty, i'd let them all do it. ALFA is so used to keeping doors shut, rather than to see what can be accomplished by opening the doors that it's painful to watch. We're so set in our ways that we have blinders on, not noticing the problems around us until it's too late.

I love this place, I really do. I wouldn't have made a single post trying to find solutions to the problems I see if I didn't. I don't have any "pride" in this, I don't have anything to "gain". I don't care who does what, as long as this community thrives. But right now, it doesn't and I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get it to survive and at the same keep as true as possible to it's core values. Not DMing where you play is not a value, it is a response to the paranoia that has been a part of this community since the start. It is a symptom of the distrust towards your fellow member.

I am a DM on BG and I have friends who play on BG. If I really wanted to cheat, It wouldn't be a problem to do so. If I could play on BG, I would in a heartbeat. Would that increase the probablility of me cheating? Why would it? There is nothing I can't accomplish today that I could accomplish were I allowed to play where I DM. I am sure that there are reasons for the rule to exist, but those reasons should not help to diminish us as a community.

That said, (personally) not being able to play where I DM only makes me play less and DM less because I can't spend my time in ALFA being with my friends anymore unless it is by "working".

[kid]

You can rotate.
That's what we try to do.
Moving the group between servers and switch DM every 3-4 months or whenever a DM gets tired.
Kinda like you do in PnP.
It's not perfect but can work.

And Mikayla, as for cheating and stuff. now that we have a nearly no CvC no PW game world, "power" and cheating seem much less important and DM generated stories are more important.

Although I still don't want DMs to DM where they play. Not 100% sure why. Just feels iffy.
Maybe just because it will create some sense of two "classes" of players.
A regular player, and a player that can give me XP and stuff and has other privileges.
Even just socially I don't like it. Makes me feel uneasy and less willing to take part in playing.

[HEEGZ]

I do not support DMing where you play. That works only in a single server environment with a low membership level IMO.

I think ALFA is already low membership and heading for single (or duo) server this year or next.

DMing where you play seemed to work fine in Exodus... I'm all for trust and harsh penalties. But this idea seems dead on arrival if both PA and DMA are adamantly opposed. Ah well.

[Veilan]

I'm all for trust and harsh penalties.

This is a good philosphy in theory, however, in practice the second part is utter fiction in ALFA.

[Castano]

Veilan speaks the truth. Harsh penalties have always fallen by the wayside when they will result in diminished membership or participation levels.

[oldgrayrogue]

If we begin to encourage play of other games among alfa members I think we do so at the risk of hastening the erosion of our existing servers and their games.



When there is replacement software that we can agree as a community to convert to, or ALFA is otherwise near totally unplayed, I think it will be time for something like this. I just think we're a bit too early.

This -

We wait until (? if? ) the next viable platform presents itself and then we move over en toto.

Everytime 7 people play DDO for a few hours on a Wednesday or someone puts up the old Sembia NWN1 server for a weekend campaign we lose players from our primary platform. We should be concouraging those people to play on oone of primary NWN2 servers instead, not facilitating schism.

Agree with Piggy and DD.

To Cloud I would say I think what you propose is what ALFA already is? I saw your proposal as more just formalizing what we already are. I think players on ALFA socialize and talk about playing other games and platforms already, but if you make that the focus of ALFA I agree that our main platform will suffer.

That said, I wish we had a much more gritty, low magic and wealth platform to play than FR setting. If one comes along lets do it.

As an aside, has anyone ever thought about contacting Wizards of the Coast as a way to recruit new players? We are after all playing their game --D&D -- on a pretty cool format. Lots of nerdy gamers post on their boards. Just sayin.

And to other posters Boom and Adanu: I love you guys but Cloud asked for respectful discussion on topic. Please keep individual squabbles to PMs.