ALFA's Faerun

[Swift]

I will believe everyone that says they favour a low-magic setting when they don't complain that you can't buy Cure Light Wounds potions on every street corner. Been there, had to alter the stores.

Win. Same here. People like the concept, hate the reality of it.

The numbers we once had in NWN1 ALFA (before the game got stupidly old...sort of like NWN2 currently is) would seem to disagree with that notion, as would the number of new characters planning to show up for Ronans Murderous Bastard campaign.

If we could shift the conversation slightly, what are people's thoughts on the DM situation? Particularly, how could we go about increasing the amount of DMing that is offered in ALFA in the future?

That, I believe, is the most important question to ask in ALFA.

And the one that we have so few good ideas on. DM XP ticks? Not a great idea, but we know that it will inspire at least a few DMs to DM more... Incentives in general are kind of hard to give. But we need one -- as obviously "DMing is fun in itself and should be good enough" isn't, indeed, good enough.

Make DMs the authority again and grant them the level of respect they deserve. If players disagree with their DM, they should simple leave the session, not complain to the DM/to others in the party/to chat because you disagree with how the DM is running their game. Constant bitching from players has been probably the second biggest killer of DMs on TSM in the time I have been on the team (behind a simple lack of time).

I do not believe that DMs are always afforded the respect they deserve or are in the position of real authority they should be. Reinforce that the position that the DM is the arbiter of the game and it may be more attractive.

[Ronan]

The numbers we once had in NWN1 ALFA (before the game got stupidly old...sort of like NWN2 currently is) would seem to disagree with that notion, as would the number of new characters planning to show up for Ronans Murderous Bastard campaign.

Well my stuff is not low-magic, 'cause our setting is not low magic. I have no desire to run my own version of FR. It is however high in murder!

[Swift]

The numbers we once had in NWN1 ALFA (before the game got stupidly old...sort of like NWN2 currently is) would seem to disagree with that notion, as would the number of new characters planning to show up for Ronans Murderous Bastard campaign.

Well my stuff is not low-magic, 'cause our setting is not low magic. I have no desire to run my own version of FR. It is however high in murder!

Yes but the very nature of a fresh start is low magic, because it does take some time for brand new adventurers to look like christmas trees when they are walking around.

[Rumple C]

Oh, and in response to "ALFA is too soft!" vs. "ALFA is/was too hard!" arguments, I'd like to point out that I have 14 people interested in my new campaign, with at least nine likely to show up. As I am ALFA's most murderous of bastards, this makes me think the "ALFA is too soft!" people are more correct than their opponents.

Although, Rumple had some big numbers (about the same as BG's Tempus Tears event I think) for his dracolich ending, and he is undeniably a Big Softie.

I had big numbers for that because i went to the 3 active groups in TSM at the time.

The 3 rivers gang
The highbies
The Dorfs.

On the question of WHY did I dm?

To run the sorts of events/adventures i wanted to have as a player. Like a barfight, and space piruts.

On the question of difficulty, more risk = more reward. If you know there is no challenge, little point in even rolling dice. Can just take it to the storyboards.

DM - You see three goblins. Player - I split them in twain with my mighty broadsword. DM - OK, they died. Congrats, hero. Player - Wheres my stuff?

[Ronan]

On the question of WHY did I dm?

To run the sorts of events/adventures i wanted to have as a player. Like a barfight, and space piruts.

This is literally why I originally started DMing - to tie up the hanging plot threads I had encountered as a player (on the NWN1 BG and SD servers). I largely succeeded, running a drowplot on SD and finishing an Ulcaster plot on BG.

Somewhere along the line I grew to detest the constant stream of requests for crafting, PrCs, and solo DMing. I grew to hate the playerbase, and imagined the multitude of ways I might (slowly) kill their PCs. Eventually I became the DM I am today; a machine of PC death covered with a thin veneer of "plot" and "campaign".

[Veilan]

Win. Same here. People like the concept, hate the reality of it.

It's a layer more complex than that. People like the concept - to apply to everyone else, with they being the exception through their outstanding bravery and smarts, which merits more rewards.

Everyone levels too fast - but me.
Everyone has too much gear - only I'm too poor.
Everyone is a dirty powergamer only putting on only fig-leaf rp - only for me it makes sense to act how I do!
Everyone is a DM attention whore - only I deserve to hop there because of my dearth of DM love!

[dergon darkhelm]

More barfights, less mailruns!

[Twin Axes]

Decently fast advancement to level 3 or 4, then dramatic slow down. Maybe by eliminating or drastically reducing DM XP after that point.

Low magic. A masterwork thing should feel really cool, a +1 magic thing a wonderment. You should be lucky to have one.

I don't mind fighting endless goblins and orcs, or bandits for that matter, if there's a good plot. They can be varied with levels, tactics, all kinds of cool stuff. I remember one server where they had goblin dire wolf riders, the number one character killer IIRC. A fantastic monster should be a rare and momentous occurrence.

In other words, more like Tolkien or classic folk tales. I know this is not Faerun, but that's what I want.

[Veilan]

I love the mystique of magic, and I love tales of heroes growing into their own from lowly beginnings, overcoming great odds and leaving lasting legacies.

Thus, I was very much drawn to ALFA, which promised for both of that to have meaning - via a low magic, moderated advancement, permadeath setting. At its heart, ALFA always was more at home in Middle Earth than in Faerûn - and the decision to use DnD for broader appeal (and because it's what NWN gave us) gradually led to the overly convenient twist of claiming that that we use DnD actually means that we slavishly adhere to PnP rules.

This argument is of course idiotic, because we also say we use the NWN computer games, yet we have no qualms about adjusting those, just as we should have no qualms about adjusting DnD to the needs and wants of this community.

The needs and wants shifted though, to something that seems to leave even those professing them less satisfied with today's community, and there we are, an indifferent mediocrity with little of our unique appeal left, disgruntled oldsters feeling their niche community was taken from them, disgruntled new blood feeling held back by ALFA's "anti-fun" attitudes and rules about permadeath, raises, and general entitlement.

Oh, my preference is still for a world in which magic is something wonderous and awe-inspiring, where a custom suit of enchanted armour is a treasured heirloom and not mail ordered from a cohort of player and DM crafters. I fully acknowledge that DnD clashes violently with that wish, but DnD is a tool, nothing more, to be used, adjusted and applied as we see fit. However, in the absence of a unifying vision, we went the intellectually lazy route of making the vanilla demo version of that tool, the 3.5 WotC game, our vision instead. There's no going back of course, but my own enjoyment of the game is greatly diminished, mostly because I came to ALFA to get that specific wondrous, rare magic and "realistic" simulationist story itch scratched.

Now, let's see what we can get out of the game we now have, there's different fun to be found I'm sure.

Cheers,

[Rumple C]

I hear you have gotten that specific wondrous "itch" "scratched" many times over.

We all go through dry spells. Well. Not me. But others.

[Veilan]

I hear you have gotten that specific wondrous "itch" "scratched" many times over.

So because I had good games and adventures in ALFA 1 and the beginning of ALFA 2 I should stop desiring that situation? Or what's the point exactly here?

We all go through dry spells. Well. Not me. But others.

I was making a point about the make-up of our game philosophy and world, not whether I currently have a "dry spell" or not. They may be subtly intertwined at some touch points, but my assessment does not come from any axe to grind or begrudging of other's fun when I'm not having much of the cake myself.

I think HEEGZ prompted a valid discussion - trying to assess what direction the members of the project envision - and I do not think it's overly helpful to try to discredit opinions by insinuations of personal situation.

At the extreme, why I desire an ALFA vision more true to its original niche, should not matter (the same justification is clearly not demanded of others). I'm a member as entitled to my opinion as Adanu or Swift, and I would vastly prefer it - not the least for a healthy board discussion climate you also professed to fancy on several occasions - if my points were to be judged on their substance, not your opinion that I already had enough fun and should just deal with having a "dry spell".

Cheers,

[Rumple C]

I was actually trying to be clever about something else entirely

(Sylvaines itch being scratched)

[Veilan]

I was actually trying to be clever about something else entirely

(Sylvaines itch being scratched)

Oic. Lessons from the Jern school of ALFA .

[Adanu]

I love the mystique of magic, and I love tales of heroes growing into their own from lowly beginnings, overcoming great odds and leaving lasting legacies.

Thus, I was very much drawn to ALFA, which promised for both of that to have meaning - via a low magic, moderated advancement, permadeath setting. At its heart, ALFA always was more at home in Middle Earth than in Faerûn - and the decision to use DnD for broader appeal (and because it's what NWN gave us) gradually led to the overly convenient twist of claiming that that we use DnD actually means that we slavishly adhere to PnP rules.

This argument is of course idiotic, because we also say we use the NWN computer games, yet we have no qualms about adjusting those, just as we should have no qualms about adjusting DnD to the needs and wants of this community.

The needs and wants shifted though, to something that seems to leave even those professing them less satisfied with today's community, and there we are, an indifferent mediocrity with little of our unique appeal left, disgruntled oldsters feeling their niche community was taken from them, disgruntled new blood feeling held back by ALFA's "anti-fun" attitudes and rules about permadeath, raises, and general entitlement.

Oh, my preference is still for a world in which magic is something wonderous and awe-inspiring, where a custom suit of enchanted armour is a treasured heirloom and not mail ordered from a cohort of player and DM crafters. I fully acknowledge that DnD clashes violently with that wish, but DnD is a tool, nothing more, to be used, adjusted and applied as we see fit. However, in the absence of a unifying vision, we went the intellectually lazy route of making the vanilla demo version of that tool, the 3.5 WotC game, our vision instead. There's no going back of course, but my own enjoyment of the game is greatly diminished, mostly because I came to ALFA to get that specific wondrous, rare magic and "realistic" simulationist story itch scratched.

Now, let's see what we can get out of the game we now have, there's different fun to be found I'm sure.

Cheers,

I can understand part of where you're coming from, but I'd like to point out that the attitude of 'treasured hierloom' doesn't work in the face of reality within 3.5 DnD, simply because you need magic weapons beyond a certain point to deal with various threats. Making them 'mystical' is doing a disservice to the PCs after a certain point.

By all means, make commoners and rulers go in awe as a DM (I do), but adventurers need this stuff to be effective.

[Rumple C]

I was actually trying to be clever about something else entirely

(Sylvaines itch being scratched)

Oic. Lessons from the Jern school of ALFA .

I am regret