FIRE SALE at Bans R' Us!

[boombrakh]

What are you talking about now, boom?

I suggest we remove all the bans from our community that is older than six months.
Why would we ever do that, you might ask yourselves?

Well, it's quite easy really and the reason is three-fold:
#1 As a community, we keep getting smaller and smaller.
#2 As a community, we've grown and matured.
#3 As a community, we're collectively playing.. a game.

As for #1 it is very simple; we keep losing members. Hell, im one of them and the reason for that is kind of why I'm even bothering with making this post at all. I can justify my absence all I want, but the real reason is that my best friend got treated like crap and banned for life over something that clearly wasn't intentional. Is this a way for me to get him back so that I'll start playing and getting involved again? Well, yes. We need dedicated players, people who want to participate and make a difference and who is involved with the community. What we have now is kind of the same thing we had way back when we were small, but this time we're not growing. It's progressing in the wrong direction. I know this is completely selfish, but it's my motivation for doing it. We need players who care.

As for #2 it is equally simple. I am one of those people who like to believe that people grow, they change and we learn from our mistakes. I know this might come off as a bit anti-american, but I assure you it's not meant that way. It's more of a critical look on a cultural behavior. I'm talking about the "put them all in jail and have them rot in there" mentality. Banning someone (and #2 is more generally speaking and not related to the reason above) for life is just dumb. It's the same as putting someone in jail for life. Aside from not having that person around anymore, there is no other point to banning them. There is no chance for rehabilitation, no way for that person to regret their mistake and show the community they are willing to do what it takes to earn our trust again. When i've run for admin in the past, trust has always been my red line. There is no reason why we all can't just reach out our hand and say "hey, let's try that again shall we" and start anew.

As for #3 it's what you all keep saying but no one seems to think. It's probably a bit taboo to even be this honest about this, but you people care way too much about this game. And yes, it's. just. a. game. Not only does that mean that we have the ability to experience love, hate, loyalty, betrayal etc, but it's also all in our heads and has no impact whatsoever on the real world. It's a hobby, it's a way to spend your free time and I hope to god that it's where it ends. And as an added bonus, we have the ability to fix things that is not possible in the real world. Like, if someone who we've given a new chance to prove themselves turn out to not have grown up and proceeds to murder another character, then we have the ability to just restore that players character to it's previous state, no harm done. If this were real life, then I'd see the problem with letting a pedophile out and having him run a day care, seeing as we can't just snap our fingers and make the problem go away.
So yeah. This is a game, nothing more, nothing less. You all say it, now act like it.



Perhaps removing all the bans wont bring any players back, perhaps it will. Perhaps some of them are as childish as they were back when they got banned and perhaps they aren't. I'd rather take a chance and find that out myself than to keep assuming the worst all the time.

[I-KP]

I could get behind an amnesty; let bygones be bygones.

[Adanu]

Just because this is a game doesn't mean that you can't be respectful and obey the common sense rules. I don't know most of the bans, but even with my disagreements over some things the admins are usually reasonable.

[Castano]

I don't want assholes back here. They drove away members. You have an individual case like the repeat self-looting Swedish guy, bring it up with Rumple.

[Rumple C]

Feel free to bring it up with me (or Regas?). I can't see a blanket amnesty working, but if there is a compelling case to be made on individual bans then i'll see if there is anything we can do.

[Regas]

This is actually on my list of projects. What I envision is an expungment process that allows members in good standing to request the removal of strikes based on some length of time (two years for one strike, three years for two? For instance). My thought was to get a majority vote from admin and or mix in HDMs too to roll back the strikes. I think we can look to expand this to banned players as well. I will not support a blanket amnesty without review however- as I dont think this would be in the interest of the community. Boom, I know you have a friend who was banned that you'd like to bring back, we can certainly look at each of these on a case by case basis as we implement these rules changes.

I am bottlnecked in terms of how fast we can implement changes based on what the other members involved in helping make the changes are willing to take on. Im trying to keep it to one to two major changes at a time, but its taking awhile to get feedback from some folks.

I also have proposals to change our sanctions to allow the PA to award formal, temporary strikes- to include up to three temp strikes and longer but also temporary time outs as sanctions. One of the issues currently is that the PA must award permanent strikes when formally sanctioning a player.

[boombrakh]

I don't want assholes back here. They drove away members.

No one wants assholes in the community. And trying to twist the thread into being about bringing back assholes is just dumb. As per #2 above, I'd like to think that people change.
Also, as for them driving members away.. I really don't believe that is the biggest problem we have here and it is already addressed in another thread so I won't go into details about it. But suffice to say, if we take care of our members when something bad happens, I seriously doubt we'll see members leaving.

You have an individual case like the repeat self-looting Swedish guy, bring it up with Rumple.

I've tried this before but people seem set on enforcing rules for the sake of enforcing rules. Enjoyment and membership retention seems to always come second to bureaucracy and it is the same way it's always been.
When I joined ALFA, I flat out cheated. I got caught by a DM (Squamatus) who had a serious talk with me and then proceeded to give me a last chance to play by the same rules as everyone else and informed me that he'd keep a close eye on me. Since then, I've been very adamant on playing fair. Had I not been confronted, perhaps I'd have been banned today or maybe not. One thing is for sure though, and it is that if he hadn't taken the time to confront me and make me realize the gravity of the situation, I would have never learned. In this particular case, there was no confrontation, there was no one willing to address the issue other than to simply inform the "repeat self-looting Swedish guy" that he was banned.

I can't see a blanket amnesty working.

To me, that is a really odd way of looking at things. To flat out say "No, not going to work" without even trying is just plain odd. Perhaps there is a point of view that I simply can't see or understand and if so, please feel free to educate me. As per #3 above, there is nothing that can go wrong that can't be set right and it's not like we're all so extremely busy with all the ins and outs of ALFA today that we can't take the time to do that if something were to happen. Also, it's not like we would have to go out of our ways to inform everyone who's been banned that their ban has been lifted. Let those who find themselves back come back to the fold.


I just wish we would just stop being machines, and start being people.

[FoamBats4All]

I also have proposals to change our sanctions to allow the PA to award formal, temporary strikes- to include up to three temp strikes and longer but also temporary time outs as sanctions. One of the issues currently is that the PA must award permanent strikes when formally sanctioning a player.

But... the office of the PA has already given temp strikes?

[Regas]

Sure, as informal, agreed upon sanctions.

[danielmn]

In this particular case, there was no confrontation, there was no one willing to address the issue other than to simply inform the "repeat self-looting Swedish guy" that he was banned.

Incorrect sir. Player was in fact approached by then PA Vendrin, and warned about his actions. Those actions persisted after the warning. Certainly not stirring coals here, just providing accurate information.

[boombrakh]

In this particular case, there was no confrontation, there was no one willing to address the issue other than to simply inform the "repeat self-looting Swedish guy" that he was banned.

Incorrect sir. Player was in fact approached by then PA Vendrin, and warned about his actions. Those actions persisted after the warning. Certainly not stirring coals here, just providing accurate information.

Technically you are correct, but it's not as simple as that. There is a timeline to take into account and the circumstances. What you are doing is basically what I've already pointed out; enforcing rules for the sake of enforcing rules. When you don't talk to the player, you can't understand what really is happening. People hide behind logs and behind rules in order to avoid dealing with issues.

I am not interested in debating the single issue here. If it is going to be addressed, then it will be by the people who has the "power" to do so. I explained in my initial post about where my motivation for posting this comes from so that there wouldn't be any confusion. I don't need to hide behind hidden motives. Many things play in, but this is the one that is closest to heart.

Thank you for showing interest though.

[Rumple C]

I can't see a blanket amnesty working.

To me, that is a really odd way of looking at things. To flat out say "No, not going to work" without even trying is just plain odd. Perhaps there is a point of view that I simply can't see or understand and if so, please feel free to educate me. As per #3 above, there is nothing that can go wrong that can't be set right and it's not like we're all so extremely busy with all the ins and outs of ALFA today that we can't take the time to do that if something were to happen. Also, it's not like we would have to go out of our ways to inform everyone who's been banned that their ban has been lifted. Let those who find themselves back come back to the fold.


I just wish we would just stop being machines, and start being people.

It's like a blanket amnesty from a Jail. I have little issue with jaywalkers going free. but i'd rather see the violent crims stay where they are. Some of the people that were banned did some fairly spiteful stuff.

[Heero]

I forgive pinkpink.

[boombrakh]

It's like a blanket amnesty from a Jail. I have little issue with jaywalkers going free. but i'd rather see the violent crims stay where they are. Some of the people that were banned did some fairly spiteful stuff.

That is exactly my point. We treat people like criminals when in fact they havn't done anything illegal. They've simply broken rules in a game world where there aren't any real repercussions. Getting caught and "serving time" should be enough. I have no issues with bans themselves, some people do actually deserve to be banned for some time. If we continue the similies to criminals and jail, what irks me is the "lifers without possibility for parole". Why take away the only carrot they have to rehabilitating themselves? Why close the door for good? What good does it serve other thank the false sense of "security" that we as members feel when you do? I still firmly believe, even though it's apparantly a view not shared by many, that people are capable of change and learn from their mistakes.

I know it's hard to believe, but locking people away doesn't really solve anything, rehabilitation does. But like I said in my initial post, it's probably a cultural thing.

[Rumple C]

It's like a blanket amnesty from a Jail. I have little issue with jaywalkers going free. but i'd rather see the violent crims stay where they are. Some of the people that were banned did some fairly spiteful stuff.

That is exactly my point. We treat people like criminals when in fact they havn't done anything illegal. They've simply broken rules in a game world where there aren't any real repercussions. Getting caught and "serving time" should be enough. I have no issues with bans themselves, some people do actually deserve to be banned for some time. If we continue the similies to criminals and jail, what irks me is the "lifers without possibility for parole". Why take away the only carrot they have to rehabilitating themselves? Why close the door for good? What good does it serve other thank the false sense of "security" that we as members feel when you do? I still firmly believe, even though it's apparantly a view not shared by many, that people are capable of change and learn from their mistakes.

I know it's hard to believe, but locking people away doesn't really solve anything, rehabilitation does. But like I said in my initial post, it's probably a cultural thing.

Sure there is a difference between the RL and ALFA. RL has murderers (and worse). ALFA simply gets the cheaters and bullies. Cheating i can forgive. Bullying or other "crimes" that show a lack of respect for others? Little sympathy at all.

I am a big fan of second chances. Just not for all "mistakes". Also, consider an instance where a player was banned for nastiness against a current member. How would current member react to nasty banee coming back? Mayhap the banee is reformed and nicey nice. Regardless, the ill feelings likely still remain.

But... thats just my personal opinion. Bans are more the PA thing.