Familiars and Animal Companions, a few thoughts

[Ithildur]

For reference:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050927a

I've had a variety of experiences with players and DMs when it comes to RP of familiars, including running a very fun and beloved fairy dragon on a NWN1 server as well as several forgettable ones. After a lengthy discussion yesterday with a DM concerning familiars, I would like to suggest a few things that may be helpful.

Firstly, DMs are the final arbiters, and I'm a firm believer in that. If a DM says 'your familiar was caught completely by surprise and had no chance to react while the baddie with a ranged weapon critted/one shot killed it', I try and remind myself of this rule of thumb, along with the possibility that the DM isn't being a jerk, but might have something interesting planned.

There's also the fact that the NWN2 game engine is severely limited when it comes to certain things, and things can happen like wandering spawns spotting a familiar that would've been flying 50 feet in the air or perched in a tree (or even snuggled inside someone's pouch/container etc as the article above mentions; my PC has such a container in his description so the familiar isn't being 'summoned' out of thin air) and bringing it down with a melee weapon! There are risks inherent to using familiars and animal companions with the extremely limited system as is out of the box, and if a DM rules 'you took the risk, live with the consequences of roaming spawns' then it's arguably not an unreasonable call.

Having said that, I would like to ask that DMs (and players too) dealing with familars/animal companions outside of game engine combat take into consideration that they are living (and often quite intelligent) creatures. They react to their environment, get their own saves and skillchecks, can flee etc. Often it's difficult (sometimes mechanically not possible) to 'possess' a familiar or give commands to an AC and/or emote various responses, especially while something is happening in real time; that does not mean they should be treated like mindless inanimate objects. It's one thing when the limitations of the game engine mean that it acts stupid or helpless while a spawn is pounding on it, but when DMs and players are interacting with them, I submit that it's polite and reasonable (both to the creature and to the player involved) to not interact with them as if they were a piece of discard-able equipment or worse, "Eh? Why is this stupid weasel here? It annoys me! *CHOP*".

In harcore RP, losing and replacing a familiar or animal companion is also a traumatic, painful and lengthy process (one year waiting time) akin to losing a beloved companion or even an eye or a limb. If you attacked someone's mundane pet in RL without cause that might be grounds for a fistfight; attacking a familiar/animal companion might very well be cause for outright on the spot cvc without further warning.

[Galadorn]

Yes.

[I-KP]

Druids represent.

I recognise an awful lot of what you say, Ithy. Fortunately, both players and DMs alike behaved in entirely believable ways regarding the wee hin's companion. I've got no complaints but I also accept that perhaps I've been lucky. However, the engine is f_cking terrible at representing animal companions; you have no control over what they do aside from move or don't move - even a trained dog responds to more than those two simple commands. Animal companions are a liability in the NWN2 engine, a liability that costs the PC dearly (in IC terms) if lost.

Tam's companion has been gone for long while. The DM that presided over the fateful event has since buggered off and there's no active DM on MS that I've found to pick up the dropped baton. A year you say? Well, it's been a number of RL months; hopefully that's enough now, eh.

[Rumple C]

Its always tough when the kids leave home.

[Stormbring3r]

I RP my animal companion that I leave it at a Friends house while I am out agventuring as the NWN2 engine sux in dealing with them. And I go back there every so often to feed and check on it as a 1 HD AC with almost nil for HP's it is likely to die on an adventure. Or even from inclimate weather.. AC in my opinion should stay at the Mages home.. or be simply used as a RP tool as I have used mine for in the past.. Was carrying it around in my back pack and realized a crit to my back or me being knocked down would kill it so i started leaving it away unless we are at said friends house.. who has no mice for some reason

In PnP, its completely different than NWN2.. The DM AI does not target the AC as frequently as the Buggered AI in NWN2..or ALFA does.. I have noticed since my return to ALFA the AI still is fubared.. big time..

[Ronan]

There's no good way to handle them in NWN2 without a lot of scripting.

Solution? Ban wizards.

Seriously, wizards already consume a disproportionate amount of a DM's time (those PGing bastards are always like "can I buy spells?" or "can I has dead dude's spellbook?" and crap). I would prefer familiars just be kept unsummoned and ICly "left at home", or employed in some behind-the-scenes fashion. None of my wizards have had familiars for these reasons.

I realize this is removing a significant class-feature from mages, but it also removes the chance the familiar is going to get killed. Perhaps we could toolset magic boxes which completely shield familiars from harm, allowing them to be carried about freely and their master to gain the requisite skill bonuses (as item properties on the item).

Any yeah, any attack on a familiar is a hostile action akin to attacking the mage himself. CvC away!

[kid]

limit uses to safe time, or to very important times when its absolutly needed.

The RP benefit is much greater than the battle benefits.
No point in that risk unless abolutly crutial.

Never seen a DM target a pet. Hell hardly ever seen a DM target anyone. controls are yucky and no one bothers usualy.

And to ask DM to take into account pets skill roils... well... in a perfect world, ofc.
though often times they've too much shit going on to bother with it.

imm main thing would be to limit useage as much as you can.
would make things easier on everyone.

[Veilan]

This is a luxury problem.

The hardships of a DM making a demanding, challenging and ultimately rewarding deal out of a familiar's/AC's death requires that your DM already cares - and that you have one to begin with.

And when that's the case, then I pretty much think you're gonna be fine.

Cheers,

[Ithildur]

Well then...

Let me rephrase/simplify a bit. If DMs/players do not wish to channel extra/'luxury' time/energy/focus towards dealing with/interacting with familiars or animal companions, then by all means, that's fine.

However, IF another player or a DM wishes to initiate interacting with one or involve one in the action, at the very least I think it's fair to ask that they be looked at as living creatures/characters that might respond to circumstances rather than mere objects to be ganked or captured, tortured, maimed, trapped, etc without any chance of response from the familiar/animal companion.

Seems reasonable?

[Brokenbone]

NPC defender guards will face down a dragon if one is near them. NPCs are as they are, familiars at least you can take over or dismiss if wanting tactics or safety.

Going adventuring and summoning an idiot familiar to get a plus to skill or save then asking for tech res of the familiar if it gets stomped is pretty ballsy. Oh my beetle would've burrowed into some dirt to hide real good or weasel would've been inside a log! Screw that. Take 2 seconds to unsummon and sure you lose some minor buff, but junior is safe.

I think the couple of Mage guys my PC knows best, only ever seen familiars at home base. No cat or rat popping up in Underdark risking demonic stomp. More like "cat and rat are rivals for control of our basement." Sure some RP mileage, but no fuss of controlling two entities out in danger zones.

[Ithildur]

I won't go into all the reasons why the mechanics aren't that straightforward, but regardless, it's not relevant to what I'm asking.

[oldgrayrogue]

Solution: Target the mages and leave the familiars be

[Veilan]

Solution: Target the mages and leave the familiars be

Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

[Blindhamsterman]

Fyi BB once a wizard is only a few levels in... a familiar is as intelligent as the average half orc, only a while later they're MORE intelligent than the average half orc...

IC, my familiar is always with me, it's even Mentioned in my description. Said familiar comes out from time to time as well.

Ithildur is correct, in pnp there are a LOT of things you can do to keep your familiar safe, not to mention your familiar often has a whole lot of things they can do that they are unable to do on pnp, e.g. actually fly, a lot of them are small enough to hide in nooks that an enemy wouldn't even reach etc.

And yes, they're am important part of what wizards/sorcerers get as unlike an animal companion they're intelligent so are able to do a lot more, by comparison an animal companion even in pnp is basically a meat shield (pnp, they can be taught to do a few tricks, little more) outside of any IC love the master may feel for them.

[kid]

well...
There's a diffrance between if DM wants to interact with pet or if a player wants it around.

If DM wants to then ofc pets skills etc would be taken into accont.
If player wants pet there for combat benefits its not entirely certain that DM will be able to take that into account. just more work. when DMs and players know each other understanding about such things will naturaly happen. when its a one off... usualy better to avoid it or take into account DM might not be able to acomidate for all that you wish.