The mail statics - keep or replace?

[Ronan]

As I've remarked on in the past, I often log in to BG and see 4+ people on, each alone. Very often they're delivering mail, or seem to just be AFK (maybe gathering RP Incs, maybe not, I never stick around). Most of the mail runs are 100% safe and therefore a solo activity. In the interest of promoting RP, I'd really like to incentivize group activities (adventuring).

Many of the mail statics don't do this; its rare to find someone delivering mail in a group. The worst part about the mail statics (and herb spawns) is that they send PCs all over the server, alone. So when someone does log in, the other PC is down in Naskell or something. That new PC then says "whatev" and does a mail static of his or her own, and so on and so forth. They're a barrier to coordination and RP, IMO. At least if someone is getting XP by drinking ale alone they're available for RP, and not in Amn.

So I'm considering removing the mail runs and making roadside herb spawns rarer on a trial basis. Say, for a month or two, then re-evaluating the decision. Edit: At the same time I will make our low-level adventuring areas (Cloakwood Hills, Sewers, Fields of the Dead, Greenfields) survivable for a pair of level 1s, and add another solo-able static which does not scatter players across the server.

What are people's thoughts on this? If they were removed would we need more lowbie statics?

[Magile]

So I'm considering removing the mail runs and making roadside herb spawns rarer on a trial basis. Say, for a month or two, then re-evaluating the decision. At the same time I will make our low-level adventuring areas (Cloakwood Hills, Sewers, Fields of the Dead, Greenfields) manageable for a party of level 1s. What are people's thoughts on this? If they were removed would we need more lowbie statics?

I would like to know how many active parties of level 1s are on Baldur's Gate. Heck, given that a party is usually about 3 - 4+ characters, I would be shocked if we had that many on the server that all have the ability to band together. Let's not forget the fact that lower-levels and PC turnovers aren't overwhelmingly large given that our population is not increasing, despite the efforts of our open Moonshaes server.

You made a comment about seeing four people, all in random locations on their own. I would like to know the level disparity in these instances, and if they are actually characters that can co-exist. I think a re-evaluation of why you deem these should be removed is in order, especially since I find the excuse quoted and bold to be the biggest offender for being a very poor excuse, given my actual, personal experience. Also, I believe that making low-level adventure areas while excluding things for other, "higher" level PCs to do (such as these mail quests or "mushroom camping") will result in the low-level areas essentially being culled by the higher level PCs. It would be entirely IC, after all -- keeping the areas safe, ensuring the road will not have wanderers, etc. On top of that, it'd be the next easiest way to gaining gold for these PCs, not necessarily XP, given that they will have toned down/no mail to deliver or random spawns to pick up.

This is coming from someone who has a PC that isn't even knowledgeable enough (even at level 5) to pick up a damn mushroom. I would love for lower-level, random adventures to be done without DMs, but without the actual playerbase or that low-level population, I feel like you're going to hurt more things than you'll fix.

[Ronan]

Let me rephrase: a pair of level 1s. A party is unlikely and its impossible to build anything manageable by a solo level 1 due to the ruleset, unless its mouse-killing or something silly (and even then...). A pair however we can do, and obviously the PCs can be of higher level too.

You made a comment about seeing four people, all in random locations on their own. I would like to know the level disparity in these instances, and if they are actually characters that can co-exist.

I can't produce statistics on it, but the level range is typically 4-9 (i.e., most of the server). As for their compatibility, nowadays most of BG gets along, so my thoughts are "generally compatible".

Not sure what you meant by 'excuse' in this context.

[t-ice]

Mushroom picks actually punish for partying, right? Same number of shrooms to split 2 ways.

I've experienced this myself when playing on BG (not recently ): people rather being content to do statics alone than trying to actively meet. On the other hand, statics might bring lone people on, you need one before you can have two.

Perhaps best might be to cut static rewards to 1/4th if done alone or something (if possible and not leading to silly abuses)?

Also, a system that automatically tells to each player where everyone else is? So that you don't need to go through the tell-hassle to connieve a meet. (With the option to separately click on a flag to hide your own PC's location, if ICly hiding from others on.)

[jmecha]

I like the mail statics and think they should be kept.

As a low level character they provide some safe content that can be enjoyed or at a minimal used to pass the time when logged into BG awaiting the arrival of more players to play with.

As for characters running mail instead of RPing or adventuring, or being DMed....they are doing that for a reason...maybe they think mail running is more fun then the current players logged in are? maybe they only have a short bit of time to play and do not want to get truly engaged? Regardless though of their reason, I do not think the Mail should be deleted because it is good content for low levels to enjoy. If anything maybe put a level cap on it?

As for making a few areas more level 1 friendly....that I am all for.

[Ronan]

I've experienced this myself when playing on BG (not recently ): people rather being content to do statics alone than trying to actively meet. On the other hand, statics might bring lone people on, you need one before you can have two.

The trouble with cutting rewards is people will still be all over the server and alone if they do the statics.

I have an idea for an easy replacement static that lone PCs can start (scout), though a party might be needed to finish. Or maybe we can replace the mail runs with something of similar solo-ability which does not scatter players?

Meetup-tool sounds like a great idea, I'll post it in Tech.

[Brokenbone]

I think there's eight mail routes (counting one in the UD). Two (or arguably three) are safe for even a naked commoner 1, as long as you don't poke your nose behind the FAI too much.

Whether frequency got tinkered with, or new exciting destinations got added (a hermit hut in this deep woods, or hunter cabin in the Frost Peaks, or some Fist lighthouse way out coastal?), rewards sure could. I think TSM does a "divided by n+1" formula in some of its repeatables. 100 becomes 50 becomes 33 becomes 17 becomes 9 becomes 5 or something.

Various collectible stuff, herbs / components / hides (well, hides at least attached to fighty animals like bears and wolverines), I think some effort is already there to have the more high value stuff pop up more in "adventurey" areas, and less in "civilized" areas. That could be pushed further though. Rewards can always be tinkered with as well, sure, lots of stuff I suppose should be worth gold, but xp...? I guess there's skill thresholds to pass for certain things, and I think some math got changed several months ago so 1xp / 1gp lowest tier stuff became .5xp / 1gp (which only became evident if turning in even numbers). Could always tinker further, adding denominators for division purposes could take into account level, history of how many turn ins, whatever.

It's probably accurate though that even teeny rewards or having to go way out in the bush for better rewards, does mean scattering in a big way. There may be other things, not just BG-related, that could encourage congregation, though any suggestion that gets made runs the risk of saying "you're kicking the loners who are already down." Enhanced RPXP if at least paired up? Statics that only open up if there's two adventurers, even tricks like "two guys pushing a rock with combined strength to get into cave" or "two guys working levers on a puzzle door" etc. Though someone crashes or logs abruptly and all stuck, oops. Everything has its downsides.

[rorax]

So I'm considering removing the mail runs and making roadside herb spawns rarer on a trial basis. Say, for a month or two, then re-evaluating the decision. At the same time I will make our low-level adventuring areas (Cloakwood Hills, Sewers, Fields of the Dead, Greenfields) manageable for a party of level 1s. What are people's thoughts on this? If they were removed would we need more lowbie statics?

Despite the fact mail statics serve as good source for lonely players to safely make some XP, i like your suggestion and think it's surely worth some evaluation time.

I'm all up for making more random spawns areas for lower levels in general.

[Ronan]

BB, my thoughts are that solo activities should not take players away from hubs. They should instead keep players around the hub(s), so when more players log in they may more easily party up. Mail statics by their very nature move players away from hubs, and making delivering the mail a group activity would seem to be more difficult than tooling up proper statics.

So I will try to think on what to replace them with that will keep players in BG, instead of scattering them across the server. Suggestions are welcome.

[FoamBats4All]

Keep.

Having something to actually -do- when no one is online helps me stay logged in, giving me a higher chance of actually seeing other people online. When I play on BG, I stay logged in more because it has actual content to do. When I go somewhere like TSM, I log in far less, having less to do unless people are online.

Plus, it's nice to run into people on the road, rather than having to hunt down which tavern they're in via OOC.

It will also damage our leveling rates, which is nice for those who love low levels, but absolute hell for those who hate getting one-shot by rats for the majority of their PC's career. But then, that's the idea...

[Blindhamsterman]

keep them, but make the exp be diminishing rewards. Maybe have them bottom out at 1xp a pop after a set number of times.

[Ronan]

It will also damage our leveling rates, which is nice for those who love low levels, but absolute hell for those who hate getting one-shot by rats for the majority of their PC's career. But then, that's the idea...

Please re-read the thread; the idea is now to replace them with a solo-able static which does not scatter players.

I am open to suggestions, though believe the static should generally be targeted towards lower-mid levels. Highbies on BG generally have plenty they can do just by virtue of being highbies and thus having much more of the server survivable to them. If you have any ideas on such a static suitable for all levels, please post them.

keep them, but make the exp be diminishing rewards. Maybe have them bottom out at 1xp a pop after a set number of times.

Hmm, they are a good way for new players to see the server. I suppose as long as their scattering effect is short-lived due to dim-rets there's not a problem, though GP gain might be enough incentive.

[paazin]

keep them, but make the exp be diminishing rewards. Maybe have them bottom out at 1xp a pop after a set number of times.

Didn't we discuss doing this for a ton of other XP stuff? I vaguely recall some months ago a discussion on the subject but no definite recommendations were made. Something like proportionally diminishing XP after collecting 1k/month probably would fit the bill, I'd guess.

[Ronan]

Yeah, it got feature-creeped to death though.

There'd still be the GP gain, though we could simply lower that. I like the idea of lower-levels using the quests to see the server. I know that is what I did when I was on MS; delivered mail nearly everywhere, once.

[rorax]

Didn't we discuss doing this for a ton of other XP stuff? I vaguely recall some months ago a discussion on the subject but no definite recommendations were made. Something like proportionally diminishing XP after collecting 1k/month probably would fit the bill, I'd guess.

Ah, Paazin - welcome back