How to bring back the people?

[FoamBats4All]

[wvincenti]

Ugh ... level cap.
Don't we already have one at 20?

I've got no major problem with loosening up the wealth standards.
They're plenty loose for me at the current levels, but I won't cry if gold availability increases by 25-50%. I rather enjoyed knowing that there were some fantastically wealthy PCs in ALFA back in the day.

One of the useful by-products of increased wealth would be that higher level PCs might finally have enough wealth to do what they've rarely been able to do in my experience. Pay lower level PCs to go do this, that or the other thing. Build organizations, etc.,

-Bill

[danielmn]

Doesn't take a high level to hire others out. Heck, I bet Garlus was buying gems for more than the selling value in the shops around the third level...

[Ithildur]

All you n00bs should stop whining and start DMing! That will get people back in game. Don't like all those cheaty highbies? Get rid of them the old fashioned way, untimely death! You can't do that in the forums or in the player client.

+1

Hmm, old ALFA1 servers do have a certain appeal I suppose; so many servers I never got to litter with corpses. Can we have the Ducklings back too? I think that might be quite therapeutic for Maxcell.

[Adanu]

All you n00bs should stop whining and start DMing! That will get people back in game. Don't like all those cheaty highbies? Get rid of them the old fashioned way, untimely death! You can't do that in the forums or in the player client.

I know, many of you are terrible RPers, or only want to DM in order to grief that PC you've always hated. Thats ok! BG's standards are exceptionally low (hell there's talk of letting Xan in). Provided you limit your griefing to 1-2 PCs, I'm fine with it. Twinking your friends if fine too; we just need DMs!

Also I am trying to drag the other (lazy good-for-nothing) admin into a serious multi-PC discussion.

Some of the TSM players should start DMing. I'll probably DM on WHL soon as I've finished exploring it

[Rotku]

'Campaign' PCs sound like fun for PnP stuff... but I'm not too sure about a place like ours. Not only that, but I don't much like the idea that 'I can only play this PC in DM sessions now'. A poll to see if this would actually be received well might be in order. To be fair, we already have this sort of thing going on with higher level PCs anyway... that being said, people with time to spend leveling their PC will always have an advantage over those without, regardless of whatever rules we pick up.

It worked (or something like it) in NWN1. It can work now. Don't need some big system to monitor - allow people to self-monitor.

[Ithildur]

4. Why are the majority of Alfa's members not involved in any aspect of Alfa outside of connecting with old friends and posting on the forums? How has Alfa's purpose and existence changed from being a online series of vibrant well populated PW on NWN1 to a group of people who spend time together in online chat and in forums talking about what they love best?

I can't speak for others, but I took a break because of 3 reasons that are totally unrelated or the polar opposite of what many seem to be wringing their hands about:

1. RL more than anything else

2. complete stalling out of some major plots/DM activity dropping

3. trends/tweaks that were perhaps needed to some extent (temp retirement might be a nice experiment) but in other cases (new folks showing up farming their way to lvl 7 in weeks and bragging about it, peopl feeling entitled to their PCs surviving everything and reaching high levels, being the center of attention in spite of accomplishing little, etc) were starting to water down the place to become like so many other projects out there.


1 isn't anything ALFA can do about, 2 we all agree will help make a huge difference (and I'm optimistic will be shored up), but 3... in the midst of recognizing that some tweaking does make sense for ALFA today, I for one will probably quickly lose interest in a form of ALFA where dozens of lvl 15s run around and farming one's way to 'success' is viewed as a fun and viable alternative to what ought to be the main attraction here; doesn't matter if such 'progress' fills servers with 30 players each, it'll be a sad, sad day.

It worked (or something like it) in NWN1. It can work now. Don't need some big system to monitor - allow people to self-monitor.

That's great if people want to willingly port their PCs over to a campaign game, in fact it'll be a highly attractive option to many of us I'm betting. But there's no reason for a system that forces folks to play that way.

[Swift]

That's great if people want to willingly port their PCs over to a campaign game, in fact it'll be a highly attractive option to many of us I'm betting. But there's no reason for a system that forces folks to play that way.

And there never was. In NWN1, it was always optional. Those that did not like the idea simply didn't do it.

[Ithildur]

That's great if people want to willingly port their PCs over to a campaign game, in fact it'll be a highly attractive option to many of us I'm betting. But there's no reason for a system that forces folks to play that way.

And there never was. In NWN1, it was always optional. Those that did not like the idea simply didn't do it.

There /was/ a 'system' of sorts (some basic, sensible rules as I recall) for transferring to a campaign game, but indeed no one was forced to at any point.

[t-ice]

People who don't play here often, or don't play here at all anymore but still manage to play the forums: What can we realistically do to make ALFA more appealing to you?

Well, for my part, in essence you answered this yourself Foam. Though with an attitude that is hostile and a point of view that is inside-out as opposed to outside-in:

Out of curiosity, is this thread about how to bring in new/old players, or about how we want to throw a fit against high-level characters and get them forced away?

What matters is playing together, being able to hop into the PW and to be part of the game. Be that with DMs or with other players. There's two big institutional problems with ALFA there:
The IC-geographical. With 4 servers and at most 3 people on when I've checked during past months, if I logged up with my PC, I'd be most likely alone because of the IC distance.
The level spread. With the dedicated veteran players having characters in the lvl10 range, if my lowbie does meet a group with or without DM, I'm just going to be in the way, or at best left to watch and offer admiration as the big shots do things. This hinders veterans from engaging and playing with newcomers.

The solution to the IC-geographical is simple but painful: Relegate servers to "DMd-campaign-only" duty, leave two standing live. (It could even be possible to enter the other servers with live PCs under a DM, to use them as extention of live servers to take adventures on?)

The solution to the level spread is probably not throwing fits against high-level PCs. But it must be solved if people are to play together. One way or another we must smooth the power difference between new PCs and veteran PCs so that most people can play together. There are several potential ways, what comes to my mind is:

• Allow new PCs the "riskless, positive-reinforcement, feel-good, farming" to higher levels Cloud speaks of, and after grinding it for a month or couple they can "play with the big boys". This is how most PWs operate, afaik. With plenty of PCs at the level cap (be it 20 or 30 or whatever)
• Increase starting level
• Cap level
• Alter the ruleset to smoothen the power curve

Some combination is needed, and of those I know of in my opinion by far the best existing, workable way is some of the E# DnD rules, coupled to starting at lvl2 or 3.

Every member of the community has earned the right to play at the same table and have fun together far more than any member have earned the right to play a high level PC by a ruleset strictly interpreted by classic-DnD-rulebook lawyers. So I say use E#, it doesn't stop anyone from progressing, but it does stymie the exponential growth of power with levels. Tweak the special feats obtained when at the E-cap so that power parities are evened enough (= special feats for hydrib builds and maybe arcane casters). Besides, NWN2 is a horrible engine for high-level DnD fights against dragons, balors, liches, archons, whathaveyou.

Like Cloud said, we're a mature community with people with varying amounts of time to play. We need to bridge that gap and have a person who can commit 20 hours a week to the game be able to play together and have fun with someone who can play 4 hours once every two weeks. We need something like the E# system. And it's not about hating high levels, it's about wanting to play with the great RPers who play those high levels. Offering riskless grinding is no solution to me, I can't be arsed to grind and I hope I'm not alone on that here.

[Blindhamsterman]

Speed up levelling more than has already been done is likely to push even more of the older folk away, and capping levels will likely push away a reasonable number as well.

As galadorn and ithildur said, the fact high levels exist should be a cool, impressive thing, they should've performed great deeds and the like. I do think that the majority of our high levels have indeed performed acts that are note worthy so shouldn't be an issue.

But levelling is waaaay to quick in recent times, its THAT that causes level disparity for short periods as a pc starts and super levels while some that prefer not to grind or have less time level much slower.

Suggestion: bring back validation for set levels, maybe 8, 10 and every one after it. DMs can make the call on if a pc levelled too quickly then. Maybe even have the requirement to have done acts that have made the pc important to server story etc.

In addition, add the concept of a second pc so that if for some reason a player isn't able to level they don't need to stop playing, and can use the higher level in bigger DMd stuff.

[Xanthea]

The servers that favour a slower progression tend to solve the issue by allowing multiple PCs. Level gaps aren't nearly as big a deal if the old established players have the ability to switch to a more appropriate character when needed.

[Blindhamsterman]

The servers that favour a slower progression tend to solve the issue by allowing multiple PCs. Level gaps aren't nearly as big a deal if the old established players have the ability to switch to a more appropriate character when needed.

Am I allowed to consider this an agreement with my suggestion?

[Xanthea]

Am I allowed to consider this an agreement with my suggestion?

I definitely agree level spread is a problem right now. Why not try allowing multiple PCs, as a growing segment of ALFA seems to want it, and see how much that does to help solve this before fooling around making other changes?

[rorax]

I also in favor of allowing multiply PCs, i think it's a quick solution that does not require a lot of effort and will bring immediate results.

I believe many of those who play high level characters and no one to play with will enjoy such decision.