The travel rules are really no solution for getting people to play together on a day-by-day basis, since it's meta for PCs to hop around all servers all the time, and most players play by the IC voluntarily. (Yes, you can construct a PC for whom you can explain hopping around constantly, but that's really a analogue to the "I really hate orcs, so I farm these orc spawns" -character. And still getting involved in more than one concurrent plotline is a huge stretch at best.)
The ways for people to come to the same place and play together shouldn't come at the cost of IC believability.
And if the playing is down, temporarily or otherwise, the only thing we could do to help people gaming is to make it easier for those who do come to get together.
I'd say if we are trying to recreate PnP D&D, then playing in multiple games is no biggie..... it's the definition of what we are that is unclear to some people, and causes confusion and disputes. Most games think of ways to keep people playing, not hinder them.
Multiple PCs would help IMO. Greater PC turnover would help a lot as well.
I have yet to visit WHL, and only briefly visited MS. If I could roll another PC on those servers I would visit, and often. Especially since my PC is currently stuck in the UD on BG. I could log on to DM on TSM, but in all honesty am burnt on DMing from the last campaign. Everytime I take a hand at DMing it is the same: I bite off more than I can chew with the best of intentions but due to RL can't follow through and players end up disappointed. DMing is a lot of work. It takes much more effort and creativity than playing. I imagine many DMs have had similar experiences, so "just log on and DM" is not realistic for me.
I actually have found myself logging on to the Dalelands server lately to try out a bunch of PC concepts kicking around in my head. I would much prefer doing that in ALFA but cannot due to the rules. I have seen quite a few other ALFAns logging in there as well. Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
I have checked out the other 2 most populated NWN2 PWs -- Dalelands and Baldur's Gate to see what the fuss is about. There is certainly very good RP to be found on these servers with players and DMs interested in story. However, they are also a huge grind fest with most players having "Main" high level toons and a bunch of alternates. Activity goes on on these servers regularly which would get you immediately banned in ALFA. Do the players on these servers like story? Certainly. But they also like the "video game" aspects of play and are really into builds. I think Dalelands has like 2 dozen PrCs available plus alternate starting classes and PCs get to have like 3 PrCs per toon. Respawn also attracts more players than permadeath. Believe it or not, most players hate permadeath. So yeah the "populated" servers seem to attract more players than us because they cater to what most players want. As long as ALFA is a "hardcore RP" PD world (which I support) we will have a limited player base IMO. Multiple PCs would help that as people would feel inclined to play an alternate while not placing their beloved high level PC at risk, or not playing that PC with others due to IC constraints, which is also a big factor.
Anyway, I don't think the question is so much "what's wrong with ALFA" as "What makes ALFA different from other PWs." We can make changes that will attract more players, but that will take us away from what makes ALFA different from these other options at its core.
oldgrayrogue wrote:I actually have found myself logging on to the Dalelands server lately to try out a bunch of PC concepts kicking around in my head. I would much prefer doing that in ALFA but cannot due to the rules. I have seen quite a few other ALFAns logging in there as well. Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
Probably a question to bring up with the DMA election. I sincerely doubt that such will actually happen if the DMA or PA objects.
(though if they're for, you have a simple majority in an all admin vote too, so there's that).
oldgrayrogue wrote: Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
In ye olden days people kept servers in beta so we had 2 PCs that way. I remember active DMing on those servers under the guise of "testing"
I am willing to volunteer MS to test the 2 PC concept. MS sees little activity outside sessions, it's far enough away to not be involved in FR-wide issues. What happens on the Isles stays on the Isles..or so goes the old Ffolk saying...
On bad governance: "I intend to bring democracy to this nation, and if anybody stands in my way I will crush him and his family."
You're All a Bunch of Damn Hippies
On bad governance: "I intend to bring democracy to this nation, and if anybody stands in my way I will crush him and his family."
You're All a Bunch of Damn Hippies
oldgrayrogue wrote: Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
In ye olden days people kept servers in beta so we had 2 PCs that way. I remember active DMing on those servers under the guise of "testing"
I am willing to volunteer MS to test the 2 PC concept. MS sees little activity outside sessions, it's far enough away to not be involved in FR-wide issues. What happens on the Isles stays on the Isles..or so goes the old Ffolk saying...
Funny Castano, I have been speculating on opening up Amn under just that guise instead of shooting for live headfirst...
oldgrayrogue wrote: Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
In ye olden days people kept servers in beta so we had 2 PCs that way. I remember active DMing on those servers under the guise of "testing"
I am willing to volunteer MS to test the 2 PC concept. MS sees little activity outside sessions, it's far enough away to not be involved in FR-wide issues. What happens on the Isles stays on the Isles..or so goes the old Ffolk saying...
Funny Castano, I have been speculating on opening up Amn under just that guise instead of shooting for live headfirst...
do it. You can stay in Beta forever if you omit static quests or one of the many other ticks on the list for live
I might even play there...as a cleric or something that won't be witch hunted
On bad governance: "I intend to bring democracy to this nation, and if anybody stands in my way I will crush him and his family."
You're All a Bunch of Damn Hippies
Two PCs is exactly what I meant. But to be clear, the proposal would be to allow any player on ALFA who either plays or DMs on another server to have a second PC on MS, I guess, and never the two shall meet. So your main PC is precluded from traveling to MS, and your alternate PC can only play on MS. If you should retire either PC the 30 day rule that applies to DMs kicks in. And your offer of MS is a generous one Castano. If Amn were to volunteer the same then MS players could have a chance for an Alt there -- assuming the powers that be would ever approve it.
While on that subject, there are very good reasons for a 1 PC rule, most of them having nothing at all to do with metagaming or other abuses like muling between PCs etc. A one PC rule forces you to become truly invested in your PC and their story. It improves immersion and makes roleplay more meaningful. The argument goes that if you find yourself no longer interested in your current PCs story, or are clinging to it more for OOC reason (like not wanting to start over) then maybe it is time to retire the PC. I have done this myself several times in ALFA, always to move on to another enjoyable PC and experience. However, as our world grows larger and the player base continues to shrink, this is a change we may wish to consider to allow more players and DMs in ALFA to actually play with each other rather than alone on mostly empty servers. All that said, I firmly believe this drop off we are experiencing is simply an "autumn lull." I remember just a few short months ago everyone commenting on how alive and active ALFA was with new players coming in daily. Looking forward though, I certainly would support something like this.
oldgrayrogue wrote:I actually have found myself logging on to the Dalelands server lately to try out a bunch of PC concepts kicking around in my head. I would much prefer doing that in ALFA but cannot due to the rules. I have seen quite a few other ALFAns logging in there as well. Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
Probably a question to bring up with the DMA election. I sincerely doubt that such will actually happen if the DMA or PA objects.
(though if they're for, you have a simple majority in an all admin vote too, so there's that).
Then obviously we need admin to vote yes on this. Or is this something that will absolutely have to wait for a few more election cycles to resolve itself?
"Cast in his unlikely role....ill equipped to act"
The main difference between then and now is we are hopefully a month or two away from rolling out the OAS again with all it's time tested bells and whistles.
This does not mean we can't explore opening up one of the servers on a trial or limited basis. In doing so remember that we'll still need to do a fair bit of work to make it happen, should we agree to go ahead with the idea- it will not happen overnight nor without a real work from real people.
Closing thought- harsh words and rhetoric, while they might make the author feel better, will only serve to cause folks to dig in their heels and shut down. If the goal here is to truly improve ALFA (rather then burn it down), then a more dipolmatic tone will go a long way to helping things along.
To address the topic directly at hand - namely What is wrong with ALFA - I think the answer is quite obvious. It is those sword-fighting smilies in Regas' post.
Rotku wrote:To address the topic directly at hand - namely What is wrong with ALFA - I think the answer is quite obvious. It is those sword-fighting smilies in Regas' post.
More specifically the fact that they keep missing each other.
oldgrayrogue wrote:I actually have found myself logging on to the Dalelands server lately to try out a bunch of PC concepts kicking around in my head. I would much prefer doing that in ALFA but cannot due to the rules. I have seen quite a few other ALFAns logging in there as well. Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
Probably a question to bring up with the DMA election. I sincerely doubt that such will actually happen if the DMA or PA objects.
(though if they're for, you have a simple majority in an all admin vote too, so there's that).
Then obviously we need admin to vote yes on this. Or is this something that will absolutely have to wait for a few more election cycles to resolve itself?
The point was more that both the DMA and the PA have some avenue to shut down any such efforts pretty well regardless of what anyone else thinks, and we should thus care very much about what they think-- and if it's a dealbreaker, it's election season and thus the regular opportunity to seek change.
But if they agree with the notion, I know I would vote yes and the motion would thus carry an all admin vote. Ambiguity in the "you have" I think; I meant it in the sense that you would have the majority, not that it would be an extra obstacle.
For if it will happen or how long it will take, I don't much know; it's much easier to read how people will respond in the short term than it is to guess their broader decision making criteria. But you can ask-- folk who want a leadership position totally expect to be asked questions about their views and values. Or I hope they do.
oldgrayrogue wrote:I actually have found myself logging on to the Dalelands server lately to try out a bunch of PC concepts kicking around in my head. I would much prefer doing that in ALFA but cannot due to the rules. I have seen quite a few other ALFAns logging in there as well. Maybe we could get one HDM willing to open their server up to "alternate" PCs and Admin to agree on that? See how it goes?
Probably a question to bring up with the DMA election. I sincerely doubt that such will actually happen if the DMA or PA objects.
(though if they're for, you have a simple majority in an all admin vote too, so there's that).
Then obviously we need admin to vote yes on this. Or is this something that will absolutely have to wait for a few more election cycles to resolve itself?
More or less. I was considering running for DMA for this round, but I'm not very comfortable with the idea of self nominating without having been a DM here yet.
First Character: Zyrus Meynolt, the serene Water Genasi berserker. "I am the embodiment of the oceans; serene until you summon the storm." Zyrus: http://tinyurl.com/9emdbnd
Second Character: Damien Collins, the atypical druid. "What? Being a stick in the mud is boring. No pun intended grins"
Western Heartlands HDM: On break. PM for emergencies
