Torches

[Rumple C]

*exhales*

[SwordSaintMusashi]

A torch is an improvised weapon that deals damage as a gauntlet of its size, plus 1 point of fire damage. I am not sure what book in 3.5 printed it, but it was reprinted in Pathfinder as well.
Might be Complete Warrior or whatever book introduced the torch fighting style.

[kid]

1d4+1 fire? I guess the only issue would be that our torches are allways lit.
And 1d4+1 fire (forever) is better than a lot of regular weapons.
Maybe just allow 1 point of fire damage to burn a troll would be nice.

[Brokenbone]

SRD:
A torch burns for 1 hour, clearly illuminating a 20-foot radius and providing shadowy illumination out to a 40-foot radius. If a torch is used in combat, treat it as a one-handed improvised weapon* that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a gauntlet* of its size, plus 1 point of fire damage.

*improvised weapon means -4 to attack.

*gauntlet means 1d3 bludgeoning for medium wielders (d2 if small), so it could mean 1d3 physical +1 fire.

....

I guess if someone wants a pet project of improvised weapons, most useful of which may be the torch, see who wants to adopt you as a volunteer? Torches do burn out, wonder how one would combine the burny-outy nature of the torch item with something weapon-like (some new category of improvised weapons which'd have things like torches, shovels, lutes, beer bottles etc. in it?)

[kid]

Torche should be pulled out not lit then you should use a round to light it (activate spell?) and as long as it's active it should add 1 point of fire damage?

Bah. i've no idea how to do all that. (:

[Stormseeker]

Dont have a clue on the scrypting but what about adding *charges*. Maybe use a light hammer or clu with a -to damage and attack and holds a couple of charges that do fire damage? Not sure if this can be done or not.

[paazin]

There really is little point to force players to use fire/acid damage to kill a troll at 0 hp as (Zelknolf mentioned this above) a coup de grace ends them in one hit once at 0 hp.

As we really haven't any nice functionality to simulate that, we may as well just scrap this fire/acid stuff -- at least until trolls are properly implemented having all physical damage being non-lethal and fire/acid being lethal.

[Zelknolf]

There really is little point to force players to use fire/acid damage to kill a troll at 0 hp as (Zelknolf mentioned this above) a coup de grace ends them in one hit once at 0 hp.

As we really haven't any nice functionality to simulate that, we may as well just scrap this fire/acid stuff -- at least until trolls are properly implemented having all physical damage being non-lethal and fire/acid being lethal.

We might amend the scripts to just require extra shots once they're down?

In theory, it should be -harder- to coup de grace with a weapon that doesn't do lethal damage, as is the case with anything that isn't fire or acid used on a troll (because the save DC would be 10, as you're not doing any real damage), though granted not terribly risky (as you'd be doing a max-damage critical hit with that nonlethal damage-- even a commoner with a sharp stick could keep a downed troll down until it rolls a 1). Of course, we're already hooking the troll's damaged event-- it'd be a trivial thing to go back to the rules on it, and just make 'em roll fort DC 10 or die every time they get hit by something that doesn't do lethal damage.

Of course, the rules also say that your 1 point of fire damage from your trollfinisher knife of 1 fire damage used to coup de grace is fort DC 11 or die for a troll; so we might just shrug and say a downed troll getting hit dies, by the same sort of handwaving that happens there.

[Brokenbone]

Our trolls also prior to falling down fast heal 5hp a round regardless of whether the damage was fire/acid or anything else, right? That's a lot of troll advantage vs why folks try fire/acid in first place, a fudge when they fall down doesn't seem unjust to those poor trolls.

[Zelknolf]

Fire and acid damage should stay gone, but only the fire and acid damage (back to hypothetical troll killing dagger of +1 fire damage-- you do 1 real damage and 1d4+str/magic/feats nonlethal damage; it's not really an important distinction for most people who are capable of killing trolls, as they tend to do enough nonlethal damage to beat regeneration, and end up looking at a downed-but-not-dead troll)

[t-ice]

Starting combat by fireballing a group of trolls to 1/2 of their hp each, and then charging in melee, does make a difference on whether the damage regenerates or not, though... But doesn't have anything to do with torches, really.

[Riotnrrd]

I would like to help or have canon trolls, so I can add them to my creature pack(s), and turn them loose in the adventuring world.

[Stormbring3r]

Torch: A typical torch is a wooden rod capped with a twisted flax
soaked in tallow. A torch burns for 1 hour, clearly illuminating a 20-
foot radius and providing shadowy illumination out to a 40- foot
radius. See page 164 for more rules on illumination. If a torch is used
in combat, treat it as a one-handed improvised weapon (see page
113) that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a gauntlet of its
size, plus 1 point of fire damage.

Troll Healing ✦ Healing
If the troll is reduced to 0 hit points by an attack that does not
deal acid or fire damage, it rises on its next turn (as a move
action) with 10 hit points.

Just Sayin

[Zelknolf]

That's 4th edition, Storm.

The passage you want is this one:

Regeneration (Ex)
Fire and acid deal normal damage to a troll. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

And this one:

Coup de Grace

As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.

You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to "find" the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).

and yeah, 3.5 is wordy as all getout. There's more:

Regeneration

Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.

An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

(this last part seems to contradict itself-- note that a creature rendered unconscious can be killed with a coup de grace, but an attack that can cause instant death only threatens if it is delivered by weapons that deal lethal damage-- perhaps they meant that you were supposed to switch, like we have; D&D creates many ambiguities through omission and poor naming convention, as a general statement.)

[t-ice]

The "stand up back to life with hp left, if not killed with fire or acid" seems to be how nwn2 standard plays by. I cannot find this in d20srd, though, so maybe it is a 3.0 thing that got overturned in 3.5?

Furthermore, about coup de gracing:

A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.
...
An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.

So no, looks like you shouldn't be able to coup de grace with nonlethal damage. So an adventurer who beat a troll to unconscious but doesn't have any fire or acid can only keep continuously hacking away at the troll to smaller and smaller pieces, which continue to regenerate back. By the book the adventurer seems to be left to resort to:

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

So if the troll starves before he does, the adventurer wins! (Or two adventurers could take turns sleeping/eating, and keeping on hacking the troll.) Yes, silly, but there you have it. Or they could:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html

Also, apparently ninjaed.
But it does explicitly say you can't coup de grace with nonlethal.