Leveling rates/ Highest Levels currently in ALFA/PrC's

[Mikayla]

My PC was 5th level when this thread first popped up, and is still 5th level now (and has, like, almost no more experience than back then - mostly due to me not playing much these days). I will say DM given experience tends to vary wildly - I've RP'd for a few hours with some DMs to receive 60 or 90 exp. Then I've RP'd with some DMs and made nearly 100 exp an hour. Gradually you come to learn who gives out more and who gives out less. Such is life. My gain-rate has been very slow of late, but then, I know others are doing just fine - there is at least one PC I am aware of that started as new after I had already hit level 5, and now, some 6 or 7 weeks later, is level 5 (I believe). So, there is exp out there.

[Hughes]

I figure everyone should get the same xp, whether in a party, not in a party, high level, low level. High levels already have steeper levelup costs. Party members are safer, that's the reward for partying up. Soloing players don't feel they're earning less by soloing. Seems weirdly simple but I think it could work.

[dob85y]

I have to agree, as in life the simplest solution is often the best, i have a PC who seemed to be on level one forever, then i finally got to level two, now i have to gain double what i gained from level one to level two, level three seems so far away, and while yes i am in a remote location with very little DM coverage i wont need scaled xp rates to keep me from flying through levels.

[dergon darkhelm]

So as not clutter the IMPORTANT READ THIS thread.


Dimrets on repeatable statics -

[dergon darkhelm]

Or if dimret scripting not viable.

One mail script or fed-ex static per day ....or something like that.

[danielmn]

So as not clutter the IMPORTANT READ THIS thread.


Dimrets on repeatable statics -

The issue in the Important thread has nothing to do with repeatables, but doing one shot quests back to back to back, some in different locations altogether. However, I am not against the idea.

[Matti]

Well if we're going to use this thread.
I support the idea of having diminishing returns on repeatable static quests.
The first time a character finishes a quest it should grant both the gold and xp as it does now, as I assume that all rewards have been balanced. And during the first time a character actually learns and encounters new things to him/her/it as they go about. But as the quest becomes available a second, third... time, the amount of xp should be diminished, perhaps by splitting the quests in a first time only and a repeatable category.

[t-ice]

Uh, huh. Thread Necromancy!

I'd say anything that relies on per-static-quest scripting will only result to a general nodding of heads to several directions on how it should be, and how someone(tm) should make it happen.

It needs to be a global system, perhaps with a single variable to control it per quest. Like RPXP and combat xp.

By the way, there is data that shows that the most eye-popping static XP gains per hour are done by combat xp, not static quests. (For PCs leveling between 1-7, this probably tilts to quests' favor as lvl10+ is reached). It came as a surprise to me, too. But just goes to say that dimrets on statics will not be sufficient at all.

My suggestion is to cap average XP gains from static quests and combat per in-game time. (Perhaps making the lowest levels exempt, as it seems generally accepted to use static content to get past lvls 1 and 2 relatively fast.)

Since powergaming is playing to maximize the amount of xp gained per hour of gaming, simply cap that ratio to a reasonable amount which most players can achieve while taking their time and RPing through the static content. It won't force anyone to actually RP well, but it will remove the horrible incentive we have which makes people who RP badly gain five times the xp of those who take their time to RP well.

The other main idea seems to be to bring back what this thread talks about all the way back: XP caps per RL week. Which alone would not have prevented the 1000xp in 2hours "feat", but it would have prevented the player(s) from getting any more xp that week and powerleveling.

[dergon darkhelm]

So as not clutter the IMPORTANT READ THIS thread.


Dimrets on repeatable statics -

The issue in the Important thread has nothing to do with repeatables, but doing one shot quests back to back to back, some in different locations altogether. However, I am not against the idea.

Ahhh ... I misunderstood.

[Rumple C]

I support derailing threads. Also I support capping/limiting/reducing the xp gains from repeatable statics. There is only so much one can learn from delivering mail.

Gold should remain the same.

PCs presumably get RPXP from being active anyhow, so shouldn't feel hard done by.

I advocate having (every once in a while, with a low probability), serious critter drop in known farming areas (these should be non static quest areas!).

So if PC A heads into forest area B, to whomp Cougar C, Drider D, and Evil Bandit E, for the Nth time, 5% chance of spawning.... Dire Evil Bandit E and his merry men of mayhem.

A DM can always do this, but lets automate it for them, so they can watch, giggling, hands free.

[Matti]

By the way, there is data that shows that the most eye-popping static XP gains per hour are done by combat xp, not static quests. (For PCs leveling between 1-7, this probably tilts to quests' favor as lvl10+ is reached). It came as a surprise to me, too. But just goes to say that dimrets on statics will not be sufficient at all.

*nods* Fixing static quests would by no way take care of the whole issue of heavy handed rewards, but I do think that the xp for static quests have been brought up a lot of times along discussions on the irc, which I take as a sign of people being annoyed (or something along those lines) and it seems quite easy to fix. So I wanted to show my support for the idea.

To use a global cap on xp would be a nice and tidy solution to the problem, and I will gladly admit to having no knowledge of how easy/hard it would be to implement.
Another point of interest is that DMs can use their prerogative of handing out rewards and quests to those that excel with RP but seldom chop or blast themselves towards higher levels. That would not solve any xp-grinding issues, but it would serve as a good pat on the back for those that try to RP beyond the usage of carnage in their play.

[Veilan]

I advocate having (every once in a while, with a low probability), serious critter drop in known farming areas (these should be non static quest areas!).

While the intention is noble, what this would serve to do is reward undesired behaviour (combat oriented gaming by gaining combat prowess through levels and build choices) by throwing DM-placed challenges at such people, in effect vindicating their playstyle - those people are the only ones likely to even have a chance at surviving such an encounter, and even if they don't, the lesson is "sheesh I was not powerful / high enough level yet, will have to try harder".

It's really throwing good money after bad.

Cheers,

[Heero]

The real solutions is branding them with a scarlet F (for farmer) via a public shaming topic. Shame is a great demotivator.

[kid]

Shame is a great demotivator.

People who play so much allready have no shame.

[I-KP]

PCs presumably get RPXP from being active anyhow, so shouldn't feel hard done by.

People grinding statics on an industrial scale can rake in XP 10x faster than the RPXP drops, and to add a dose of salt to the wound the grinders get the RPXP drops as well.

As a player whose play style is far more sedate than others (my twitchy min/maxing urges are sated in other games) I wouldn't have said that I feel hard done by. After all, I could also grind those same statics but I choose not to (server hopping requirement aside). I’ve made my choice and the entirely predictable result of that is that I’ll be levelling far slower than a player who does chose to run the statics; I accepted that fact a long time ago and I harbour no ill feeling or sense of unfairness about it.

However -- yes, the somewhat telegraphed ‘however’ has finally arrived -- I’m beginning to feel obliged to start grinding statics and that makes me feel uncomfortable; not hard done by, just uncomfortable. Some may say that feeling obliged to run statics is silly, and to a point I would agree with that, it is silly, but when characters who started long, long after mine consistently rock up with already twice my current XP I can’t help but wonder if I’ve unwittingly crafted a very large and knobbly rod for my own back.

It’s taken me two years of fairly frequent play to reach Level 7 in ALFA* (Tam is my only PC here); it took me about the same amount of time to reach the same level when I was playing Exodus (I only had one character there as well); and when I played Haze my levelling curve was about the same again, maybe a tad shallower (I also only had one character there - one of the few end-game survivors). I’m under no illusion about my preferred play style being a ‘low earn rate’ model and in Exodus and Haze most characters did indeed level faster than any of mine, but here in AFLA the disparity seems to be rather stark. It would be unfair to point the finger solely at the statics but they evidently and undeniably play a major role in what’s going on.

I’m not really sure where I’m going with this and I certainly don’t have any easy answers. Maybe I’m starting to question whether ALFA’s philosophical position on the existence of statics has perhaps become confused: are they meant to be a primary source of XP, or are they merely intended to facilitate small party RP with a chance of nominal reward when there’s no DM around? Is it really only a few ‘bad apples’ taking advantage or is the message behind statics not being clearly communicated? Can one really blame someone for doing what at least on the face of it seems to be a perfectly legitimate approach, i.e., if it’s not allowed why does the game let them do it?

That all said, I’m still not feeling particularly hard done by. I get a lot out of playing ALFA and, at least for now, the fast levellers don’t impact negatively upon my overall experience.

* Not that I am by any means the slowest leveller around here.