Building a Better Character: Character Optimization Forums

[Rotku]

*shrugs* I never have a build.
just an RP concept and everything I take and use is built acordingly.

It's the easy way to go. Everything else requires thought.

[paazin]

Core axiom of ALFA:

Never plan for your PC to live past level 1 and you won't ever be disappointed.

[hollyfant]

Okay, now that we all made our point(s), and with the caveat that powergaming is strictly Verboten in ALFA, how about we start sharing some pointers about what does - or does not - make for a potent "build"?

• The Survival skill currently still acts as a "monster radar", especially when combined with the Track feat. This may get fixed at some point, but for now its definitely part of any "optimised character plan".
• Characters intended for hand-to-hand combat, have two basic choices: focusing on Dexterity, or Strength. The latter tends to work better.
• Parry is broken, but you can still get it to work. Use it when you roll up a PC who will never be alone, and doesn't want to fight.
• Clerics are the single most potent class. Their drawbacks are mostly in the behavioural restrictions imposed by their deity - read up on your God!
• Whenever you don't know which feat to take at 1st level, take Luck of Heroes. It's pure gold.
• Think of hitpoints as a form of "ablative armour", especially when you bring your own healing.
• Offensive "Full casters" (Wizards, Sorcerers, Druids and possibly some Favored Souls and Spirit Shamans) live and die by their spells and their spell DCs. Multi-classing such characters, or taking any feat that does not boost their spell DCs or the number of spells is usually sub-optimal.

• Just play a character you want to play - they live longer, and you have more fun.

[Blindhamsterman]

•Just play a character you want to play - they live longer, and you have more fun.

quote for truth

[Zelknolf]

If we would like to make optimization advice for people who aren't supergood at it, I think that we'd be better served by putting up a reasonably-verbose resource that organized itself by target capacities and roles in a party dynamic, ideally which can be easily navigated to something digestible and targeted toward building a particular type of character, rather than trying to roll out a handful of ready-made tidbits that are supposed to be good for all (because that will just reinforce the existing trends in our characters' patterns, as those tidbits aren't actually good for all; they're good for a handful of [already prevalent] roles.)

[Rotku]

If we would like to make optimization advice for people who aren't supergood at it, I think that we'd be better served by putting up a reasonably-verbose resource that organized itself by target capacities and roles in a party dynamic, ideally which can be easily navigated to something digestible and targeted toward building a particular type of character, rather than trying to roll out a handful of ready-made tidbits that are supposed to be good for all (because that will just reinforce the existing trends in our characters' patterns, as those tidbits aren't actually good for all; they're good for a handful of [already prevalent] roles.)

I just had to say, that is one long sentence...

[boombrakh]

I've got nothing against people building optimized characters. Hell, i expect it. Thing is, we're all actually already playing "Extraordinary PC's" by default. The only thing that does irk me is when people don't act their "part".

Easy example:
Let's say you make a fighter and dump CHA, WIS, keep INT at 10, DEX at 12 and put the rest in CON and STR. When all of a sudden, you act as this charming and lovable character, there's something wrong. You're not playing the ability scores you picked and if you can't commit to that, then you shouldn't probably have picked those scores to begin with. When said example then would go on to be suave, smooth, and perhaps a great liar, still without having put a single point in Bluff/Diplomacy. Even more so when you act all knowledgable about all manner of things yet you havn't put a single point in a knowledge skill.

Point is, imho, optimize all you want, but play by the strengths and weaknesses that you create to max out that munchkin of yours. We have a perfect example of that in our group now, a dwarf who's dumped his CHA to 6. We ignore him, frown at his bad and not always appropriate jokes, and sometimes not even notice him when in a large group. He's acting the part as well, which makes it all good.

Well, those were my two swedish crowns anyways.


PS. This:

Just play a character you want to play - they live longer, and you have more fun.

[Rotku]

Great post, boom. Always been my views on the subject. Build it how you want - just make sure you play it that way.

[t-ice]

Something that seems to be forgotten in the discussion here is that optimization really only matters in relation to the environment. What does it matter if you make a sub-optimal "build" that is only about as strong as a optimal build 2 levels below you? You're just advancing slower on the power-up curve, and the low part of that curve is every bit as enjoyable as the higher. Perhaps even more so.

But all that turns on its head if the DM (and to an extent static quests as well) can't read the lay of the game beyond PC levels and CR numbers. That can mean a massive difference in survivability between the optimal and the sub-optimal build, in practice forcing players down the optimization route if they want a PC that has a chance to live. The players will either PG-optimize, fool around with gimped PCs, or something in between, in response to how the game plays out.

[Hexigo]

I've got nothing against people building optimized characters. Hell, i expect it. Thing is, we're all actually already playing "Extraordinary PC's" by default. The only thing that does irk me is when people don't act their "part".

Easy example:
Let's say you make a fighter and dump CHA, WIS, keep INT at 10, DEX at 12 and put the rest in CON and STR. When all of a sudden, you act as this charming and lovable character, there's something wrong. You're not playing the ability scores you picked and if you can't commit to that, then you shouldn't probably have picked those scores to begin with. When said example then would go on to be suave, smooth, and perhaps a great liar, still without having put a single point in Bluff/Diplomacy. Even more so when you act all knowledgable about all manner of things yet you havn't put a single point in a knowledge skill.

Point is, imho, optimize all you want, but play by the strengths and weaknesses that you create to max out that munchkin of yours. We have a perfect example of that in our group now, a dwarf who's dumped his CHA to 6. We ignore him, frown at his bad and not always appropriate jokes, and sometimes not even notice him when in a large group. He's acting the part as well, which makes it all good.

Well, those were my two swedish crowns anyways.


PS. This:

Just play a character you want to play - they live longer, and you have more fun.

+1, my opinion aswell, thats why my PC is a weakling in STR and CON wise, so that he can make his way across the society

[Heero]

+1 to boom.

[RangerDeWood]

when i first read the title for this thread, i thought it was a powergaming seminar. i am sorely disappointed by what i found, ALFA. shame on all of you for pretending to not PG your way to high levels

anyway, i figured i'd put my two cents in. when i make a PC for the first time, i use the most awesome utility i've ever found for making backgrounds on the quick, the Hero Builder's Guidebook. most of my favorite PCs of all time, online and IRL have had their backgrounds molded by this little book. i suggest everyone who can to d/l it and at least give it a good read. if nothing else, it allows you to get into the head of your PC before you even play him in a game and things just fall into place after that.

when it comes to skills, i tend to think of a base set of things my PC would know and use regularly dependent on class, race, etc. everything else on skills is allocated due to RP use. for instance, i just gave my current PC a rank in Know(religion) on his last level because of how much he'd learned recently of other religions. however, things like move silently, spot, and listen go in every level regardless because he uses them all the time. as far as feats go, i tend to have an idea of the direction i want my PC to go in and try to pre-choose feats to fit that direction. this path often changes, but for the most part, i try to steer him toward whatever it is i see him as. for instance, i want my current PC to be very good at ranged attacks, so i'm going to be giving him the appropriate feats.

anyway, just my two cents

p.s. i've been up for nearly 24 hours yet again and don't plan on sleeping for probably another, so please excuse my lack of caring for the shift key

[hollyfant]

please excuse my lack of caring for the shift key

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!