hatchet man

[hollyfant]

Would it be feasible and/or desirable to decrease the range of Throwing Axes? They seem horribly powerful at lower levels.

[t-ice]

I think technically it's very simple at the 2das.

Problem, however, is more bows shooting at too short a range. Except that the AI would likely kill itself pathfinding if bows could shoot the 3 times further they should. And the range would be beoynd many area sizes. And I suppose slings are actually even worse, at least compared to the meh SRD slings (which are slow like crossbows, and don't allow you to use shield other than buckler)

[Zelknolf]

Do not be deceived by the range column in baseitems.2da. It has nothing to do with how far projectiles go.

[Brokenbone]

Hmm... d6 + strength. Is it really that much worse than d4 + strength from slings?

Granted though, throwing axes should be 10 foot range, slings 50 foot. In a real time combat game without 5 foot steps and all that other stuff you can actually notice in turn-based play, I'd wonder how confusing super-short range throwing weapons would be. By the time you could use it, and CLICK it, the 10 foot distance would close to 5 and it'd be AoO time.

[Zelknolf]

That's range increment, BB. Throwing axes go up to 50' in PnP, just at a penalty to hit (and penalties for range increments would be more than a bit tricky to try to implement).

[Brokenbone]

True! But I figured there's really only two missile ranges in NWN... normal, and "close enough that you're either screwed or very happy due to not having / having point blank."

[t-ice]

Do not be deceived by the range column in baseitems.2da. It has nothing to do with how far projectiles go.

Well **** me, how ever could I have thought range means how far things go this game.

But I figured there's really only two missile ranges in NWN... normal, and "close enough that you're either screwed or very happy due to not having / having point blank."

Yeah, that's how it has always seemed to me, too. It'd probably be too much not-worth-it a hassle to work out a way to have different ranged weapons be of different accuracy at different ranges. We're stuck with the game where ranged shooting means from behind the tank's back.

It might be possible, and sensible, to balance ranged weapons some with a simple (I think) base item edit, mostly on weights:

1) Make shooting slings 2-handed, like they are at SRD
2) Make thrown weapons have SRD weights. (0.5lbs per dart, 2lbs per axe)

To have feasible fantasy archers, I'm thinking the (at least almost) weightless ammunition is needed in this game. For example, our archers at bab>5 can't choose to withhold the extra, smaller AB, attacks to conserve ammo. Finally, there's no recovering back spent ammo. Regardless, if it's possible, some weight could also be attached to arrows so that you can't carry 999 of each.

3) Ammo weighs 0.1lbs each.

The weighs would likely relegate throwing axes to secondary use, primary shooters would, rightly, go for projectile weapons?

[Veilan]

Eh, seeing the range of some spells, and considering what a joke ranged combat is in NWN (unless as usual the AI is not functioning properly), the ranges of missile weapons should probably be increased across the board - currently the acquisition range suffices to get one and a half / two combat rounds of shooting, that is, if the mob stops mid-charge to scratch his arse, as they do with ALFA's AI.

Short of super dedicated PrC builds, ranged combat's purpose seems to be to to grant your melee friends some AoOs when the mobs turn to chase you around - then turn back to the melee-guy if the AoO connects.

The ability to farm something low-level with throwing axes is less a testament to their power, but more to the inferior AI / pathing with someone kiting... and lack of ranged weapons on low level mobs.

[Creslyn]

Don't think it'd be fair to have throwing weapons weigh their PnP equivalents. Noone in PnP carries around 50 throwing axes because you can recover them after a fight.

[Blindhamsterman]

Eh, seeing the range of some spells, and considering what a joke ranged combat is in NWN (unless as usual the AI is not functioning properly), the ranges of missile weapons should probably be increased across the board - currently the acquisition range suffices to get one and a half / two combat rounds of shooting, that is, if the mob stops mid-charge to scratch his arse, as they do with ALFA's AI.

Going to dispute this, and I suspect Ronan if/when he sees this might well do so also.
Currently two of our likely highest damage output characters are ranged characters. Of course it depends on the build. But any reasonably built ranger will do incredible amounts of damage with a bow.

That being said, if bows could have their range increased to match Melf's Acid Arrow. That'd be nice

[t-ice]

Don't think it'd be fair to have throwing weapons weigh their PnP equivalents. Noone in PnP carries around 50 throwing axes because you can recover them after a fight.

Well, that's certainly true as well. The point remains, however, that thrown weapons vs projectiles are hugely balanced on favor of thrown in nwn, as to my knowledge range increments aren't included at all. Bow ranges are much less in nwn, but thrown weapons are effective at longer ranges than in SRD. At high levels your launcher enchantments are what counts, and thrown weapons don't have those, so most gamers don't care.

As a result, axes wins shooting contest hands down, because thrower can have a shield. (Not going into bow-specific feats and class abilities here.) Restricting axes and darts to "point bank range" (which is already 3 range increments for axes!), if possible, would from a balancing point be good imo. As would making slings the 2 handed weapon they should be.

[Veilan]

I concur that one-handed ranged weapons, and thus throwing axes, are quite superior, with slings being the gravest offenders - effectively offering you three slots were a bowman gets two at best.

But instead of nerfing them, I think a buff to the two-handed ranged weapons - increasing their range - would seem a more reasonable approach. That means the guy with hatchet and shield could at least be outranged by the kobold with the light crossbow (if he could spot him at any reliable range), and also means a little closer to PnP on the ranged weapons ranges, and less twitchy need to open up the encounter for ranged shooters first - it might actually lead to "opening volleys" as envisioned in TOR as everyone starts with their ranged off-weapon, and if noone charges because eating three attacks unanswered instead of two might give them pause, it might introduce a whole new mode of tactical combat, especially if we do something about heavy... well. Wishful thinking territory .

Cheers,

[I-KP]

As would making slings the 2 handed weapon they should be.

[RealityMoment]
I've seen a one-armed guy - t'other arm in a sling, ironically enough - load a sling with his teeth then explode a melon at 50 yards with it, all within about the same amount of time it takes to wind up a heavy blow with a broadsword, i.e., not very long at all! Slings are not as fast to load and shoot as a bow, granted, but neither are they anything like as slow as a crossbow. IRL slings are a rather scary weapon in trained hands, but RL != DnD so as you were.
[/RealityMoment]

[oldgrayrogue]

If throwing axes could be made to be the proper weight and recoverable that would be truly awesome. Maybe a script that has all mobs drop 1 nonresellable, but usuable, throwing axe when they are killed to simulate it? Those who use them can retrieve, those who don't leave em and have the script despawn the loot after 2 RL minutes or something. You really shouldn't be able to carry more than a few, and it would improve the bowman without having to tweak bows.

[Zelknolf]

Do not be deceived by the range column in baseitems.2da. It has nothing to do with how far projectiles go.

Well **** me, how ever could I have thought range means how far things go this game.

Ah... not quite. It's this kind of range:
"1.The area of variation between upper and lower limits on a particular scale"
(defining the range of model numbers to search for)