parry

[DMyles]

I can't seem to post in the standards forum so I am posting this here. Someone who can move it feel free to do so.

Lots of things are broken about parry and some invite exploit. You can parry while doing other things like casting spells or drinking potions. You can parry incoming arrows.

The worst thing about building a dedicated parry type PC is the cumulative -5 penalty to parry if you are trying to parry more attacks then your number of attacks. I can't begin to describe how terrible this is and how easy this can get you killed.

Lets say for example you have a parry score of 30 between skill points and bonuses. Maybe you have 2 attacks and another with the off hand plus improved parry. This would let you parry a max of 4 attacks per round. Maybe you are surrounded by 5 low lvl hostile creatures that have a low attack bonus. Each of your attacks will be made at a cumulative -5 penalty. At the end of one round your plus 30 parry will be down to a plus 5. At the end of the second round you will be rolling a -20 to parry and get hit a lot. If you make it to the end of round three you will be rolling a -45 to your parry check if you live that long.

This is the part that isn't clear in the description. I would have to go down on the take it out side because I would hate to see someone invest this much energy into a PC only to die like this. Also it is really hard to count the number of attacks directed at you in a big battle. The script goes really fast and some creatures have multiple attacks plus lag.

[Mick]

Are you suggesting the cumulative -5 penalty carries over from one round to the next? I'm fairly certain the penalties only occur within a given round, then reset for the next round.

[Blindhamsterman]

Im in agreement with Mick *nod*

[Regas]

I'm no expert on game mechanics but I know you can not usually cast a Mage spell in parry mode when hostiles are in range.

[Creslyn]

You can cast a spell and parry mode will stay active, it just wont trigger while you're casting so no need to worry about that being abused.

[t-ice]

So Parry actually works in the way Combat Expertise should ref casting. Does tech people have access to the code so as to possibly port that piece of code over to CE? (Thinking not, and wouldn't work since parry triggers actively whereas CE is passive, but doesn't hurt to speculate...)

[RangerDeWood]

i did notice the parry mode ranged attack bug while fighting some goblins. goblin parried two arrows while closing to melee. is there any way to fix this so it doesn't make the deflect arrows feat pointless?

[Blindhamsterman]

Parry mode doesn't allow you to parry arrows.

However, enemies with shields occasionally parry arrows. (Never seen a PC do the same)

[t-ice]

Edit: ^ninjaed^

When arrows get "*parried*", it doesn't have anything to do with parry, logically

I don't recall from where I read this now, but somehow I recall the game engine telling you ranged attack was *parried* it meant you almost hit. That is, hit roll was under your AC, but above what your AC would have been without your shield, or some such.

Parry correctly doesn't work against arrows, like the description states.
(Although being able to make parry check against arrows when you have a shield might be sensible, but let's not open that can of worms)

[Zelknolf]

Parry is not a very editable thing, anyway. We can allow it; we can ban it. We can fitz with how expensive it is to advance and what the max rank in it is, insofar as controlling its status as a "class skill" can do that, and we can control access to the skill focus / improved parry. Technically, we can forcibly toggle the mode by script, but not as part of any meaningful events (e.g. combat events), except on NPCs (where we can crack open their AI and adjust the criteria to decide whether or not to use parry at all).

All of the stuff that actually has to do with how parry resists attack rolls is far from our grasp, and our wishes and hopes for its implementation-- which does indeed leave much to be desired-- are stuck being unfulfilled, unless we see some very-specific non-ALFA projects come to fruition way way ahead of schedule.

[Veilan]

I'm not sure where the idea to "ban" parry stems from. Did some full plater invest in it and now wants their skill points back via this route?

More seriously, choice = good, and it's certainly not overpowered or imbalancing to the game, and I don't think it has even been proven to be particularly "broken". It at least does what it advertises to do, which may not be great unless you dedicate yourself to it... but not being that great has never been a reason to contemplate banning anything here.

Cheers,

[Castano]

I don't see anything wrong with it, the lead post appears to have been refuted. yes I've already been asked to swap a parry feat out by one PC for a rebuild. So is this broken or not?

I think it works just fine. Hence no rebuilds

[hollyfant]

It's broken when you would be capable of parrying more than three attacks per round.

[Zelknolf]

It's broken when you would be capable of parrying more than three attacks per round.

This is always possible.

The question is how likely it is that you parry more than three attacks per round.

[t-ice]

It's broken when you would be capable of parrying more than three attacks per round.

It's not 3 attacks per round. It's 3 attacks per round per creature. So you need a creature with 4 attacks per round for parry to not work - how likely is that? And even then, it only doesn't work against the 4th (and above) attack. You might as well call this a feature. Sure it's a big deal on epic levels, but no so lvls 1-15.

The reason, as explained in nwn2 forums, is that nwn2 divides all of a creature's attacks per turn in 3 "flurries". If you have more than 3 attacks per round, then one "flurry" has more than one attack. Parry check is only made against the first attack in a "flurry". It doesn't matter if you're facing 8 creatures with 3 attacks per round each.

(Although in the forums someone seems to have stated that attacks coming from different sources at exactly the same time sometimes bypass parry, but the view seems to have been largely discredited.)