Charter Revisions

[Magile]

Trust.

Simply put, it is virtually non-existent in ALFA anymore.

Well, to be fair, some issues recently arose in our sister community to give us reason to pause on the play on your DM'd server ordeal.

Either way, I go whichever route the community goes.

[Ksiel]

Edited: due to my post served no constructive purpose.

[DMyles]

So there is this guy who ends up shipwrecked on a deserted island with a hot super and well known model.

Being that she is the only woman and he is the only man around and there isn't a whole lot to do things progress rapidly between them.

After some time their routine became stale and the hot model asked the man if there was anything she could do to spice things up again. After some thought he asked her to dress up in some of his clothes and pretend to be a man.

She thought this was a little strange but being the adventurous sort she played along. When she put on a few of his things, the woman dressed as a man and the man sat down beside each other.

After a few moments her turned to the woman dressed as a man and exclaimed, " you are never going to believe who i've been F***ing"

point being

when we had 2000 players it is kind of understandable why people would want to grind, powergame, cheat or whatever to be the next Hignar Ironstar. There was a big audience to impress. With a much smaller number of people it isn't quite the same.

With multiple pcs most people probably won't even play there highest lvl pc most of the time. Maybe there will be more of a natural focus on having fun as opposed to advancement as a consequence of this change in policy.

In any case the most important audience member for all of us is ourselves. People who cheat are mostly just cheating themselves, esp folks who play alone. Frankly that also has no impact on the game I play on alfa.

The only reason to worry about people getting ahead is they might play in the same dm adventures you do and the monsters might be geared to there ubber abilities. If everyone has multiple pcs though this will be less of a problem, because groups will be more balanced.

Some people will cheat but we are a small enough group now that we can more effectively police it and deal with it. If there are some people we can teach to play with the same level of maturity and honor most of us expect from ourselves we should do it. If there is a noob that is to much trouble we will just tell him to get lost like we always have.

[Magile]

I keep seeing the same people continue to shoot this down in any and all threads that bring this up. You should know YOU are/were in the minority so STFU and just be happy that the admin at the time didn't care what the majority of the community wanted.

You should know that YOU aren't exactly showing your best side and may find it better to check one's self. Insulting others isn't going to make the majority's side look any more glorious.

[I-KP]

*clears throat and points at thread title* Charter Revisions, not Petty Schoolyard Finger-Pointing. By BMing one another you're only reinforcing the strongest argument against Democracy, i.e., a five minute conversation with the average voter. If this thread degrades into another ALFAn bilge-fest then 'sure as stones be stones' nothing constructive will come of it. Be civil, or take it to IRC.

[Swift]

*clears throat and points at thread title* Charter Revisions, not Petty Schoolyard Finger-Pointing. By BMing one another you're only reinforcing the strongest argument against Democracy, i.e., a five minute conversation with the average voter. If this thread degrades into another ALFAn bilge-fest then 'sure as stones be stones' nothing constructive will come of it. Be civil, or take it to IRC.

Rather laughably, a perhaps badly worded proposal has been put forward and seconded in this thread. It is up to everybody else to decide whether to take notice or not.

[CloudDancing]

The reality (like I said in my forums posts re: the Lead Admin opening) is that Alfa will never prosper and support a vibrant vaired player base till we remove the applications process. It's obsolete in this small hobbiest community.

So you have two choices:

1. Remove the application process and recruit from good overfilled servers like Dalelands which has to lock its server out at 70! Yes..70 players and more use this open server and there is no room for all the interested players. BG:TSC frequently bottoms out at 60 and Haven at 60. Other servers..middling ones have 20-30 players regularly. The ONLY difference is the password protected servers. The RP quality is fine. Their admin rule as dictators and bannings come swiftly.

More players means more volunteers for all these damn servers people keep proposing. Its pretty freaking INSANE we have to consider a two character rule to compensate. And as I have found in all servers drama in inevitable because you simply dealing with a group of people that play mainly because they don't like to socialize with real people to start. More players won't change that anymore than having less active players.

Choice #2:
Change Alfa from a persistent world server system to a campaign server system. MEANING turn the damn servers off except for campaign days. Campaign play IS currently the ONLY way any player can survive and progress according to ALFA standards of roleplaying without "farming" statics

[Blindhamsterman]

Choice #2:
Make Alfa from a persistent world server system to a campaign server system. MEANING turn the damn servers off except for campaign days. Campaign play IS currently the ONLY way any player can survive and progress according to ALFA standards of roleplaying without "farming" statics

simply not true.

Players can still find activities to do even if there are no DMs in their timezones, there is a difference between farming statics, and doing a static or two with another player. There is also a difference between farming and travelling across a server with another player (or more) and RPing it as an adventure which culminates in tackling one of the many spawned caves etc.

Campaign severs would only really benefit our american user base these days. Which is a shame.

Rather laughably, a perhaps badly worded proposal has been put forward and seconded in this thread. It is up to everybody else to decide whether to take notice or not.

Yus I can quote it again if needs be,

If we want to do 2 PCs, then lets not be different from every other PW just for the sake of being different. 2 PCs that must be on different servers. Existing rules for existing bad behavior (muling, looting your own corpse etc) already exist to cover potential abuse. The only issue is that will limit where DMs can have their characters thanks to the archaic 'Dont DM where you play' rule (another one that few other PWs employ, but thats another fight for another time)

I then expanded on it after giving my support saying:

1) Move for a two PC rule ALA Swifts proposal

2) More interesting and diverse content (this is being worked on thanks to our awesome tech department (thanks AL, Zelk, Ronan and Bas)

3) Open a small number of areas (ideally player hub areas) on each server.

4) DM headhunting by Player and DM Admins.

[zicada]

If there really is a "democracy", somebody with poll-creation access simply create polls on all these things and go with the majority. The one "positive" thing about the current system people like to flog is that its a democracy, if that's not the case, its simply an expensive (in terms of resources) way to play game b.

For the record I'm against multiple chars and increased starting level because they feel like compromises on the wrong issues, but i'm for doing whatever the majority wants, and very much for a much more simplified structure that fits better with the current number of members.

Either admit there is no democracy or run polls on the various issues pointed out in this thread and act on their results.

[edit]
I mean global polls. Yes i'm aware what the charter says. Honestly though, to hell with the charter, it has no place in a hobby gaming community, it makes ALFA seem rediculous and weird to newcomers.

[Duck One]

I stopped being active in ALFA years ago because the math wasn’t there. ALFA was built with the grand vision of recreating the entire forgotten realms open for gaming 24-7-365. We had enough players, builders, DM’s, etc… to support 1 or maybe 2 servers with the kind of density to come somewhat close to being “alive”, but we were building 9 or more. You log on, and nobody is playing within 2 hours of walking distance from you, and those are the wrong level, race, alignment, etc., not to mention you had no good in-character reason to find them, accidental or otherwise. Imagine being new, downloading gigs of hak packs and rules modifications for hours, reading all the rules, logging in, and not finding any real adventure? It was (and still is) a large issue in keeping the few new members that get attracted.

The charter was made as robust as it was with the assumption that ALFA was to be scores of DM’s managing hundreds of players on dozens of servers. But it never achieved critical mass for growth.

I wrote a proposal that we stop building all those servers and put our energy behind getting one truly robust server thriving. I was willing to shelve my own server project in support of the idea. If you’re not willing to compromise on the 1 PC rule or use a bit of DM metagaming to help bring players together, then you’re going to have to consolidate and get the necessary density for a thriving server.

My advice: Drop down to 1 server. Compromise in the name of gaining momentum. Thrive before you expand.

I wish you all well.

[Tegid]

Interesting discussion. I say drop down to 2 servers. 1 surface, 1 UD. Drop the password and application nonsense. Unlock the doors and turn the outside lights on already. It's a roleplaying neighborhood we're in. Be truly welcoming!

[Rotku]

Interesting discussion. I say drop down to 2 servers. 1 surface, 1 UD. Drop the password and application nonsense. Unlock the doors and turn the outside lights on already. It's a roleplaying neighborhood we're in. Be truly welcoming!

Just a note to anyone who does feel passionately about these big changes. Lead Admin nominations open tomorrow - anyone is able to step forward and put their name in the hat. It's a great opportunity for you to (a) share your ideas in a clear, coherent manner and have people listen/read; and (b) if elected, you've got a chance to try and make some of those ideas happen - through a bit of negotiating with other Admin, admittedly, but you certainly can provide an agenda.

Give it some thought. These elections are a great way to get some awesome ideas on the table, so even if you don't win in the end, the community is still that much better off for having those ideas put forward.

[Castano]

I disagree Duck & Tegid...dropping content will not boost numbers, it will kill the project. We need to become what the majority here want - a PnP type experience...so we can and should be running things as campaign nights across all of our content and regularly adding to it and running many DM sessions, not a 24/7/365 persistent world. Server borders are OOC constructs anyway, and a server used even for one session per week is still getting heavy gaming use - I wouldn't toss my campaign maps etc. away if my PnP guys only met once per week either - and I doubt you would too.

First, in nwn2 no one is walking any great distances...nwn2 does not let us grid out miles of nature to wander around in. Instead people are jumping from one content hot spot to another within FR. They can very well RP their travels in the background just like PnP - I do not recall ever moving a miniature slowly across the table for hours to simulate travel when I played PnP. And while doing so in a game world with grass and trees is mildly more entertaining than that, it's still not what the majority of DnD RPers are here for.

Second, our player base is smaller because nwn2's player base is smaller. We need to provide quality exciting content, and change up the areas too...this is why all our DM session slots are full - because we are doing so. We regularly add temporary areas for DM sessions to our server. Apparently players like it, because they always ask what's coming next and our slots are full to the point where our DMs have difficulty intergating yet more PCs into their sessions.

What we really need is two things - lots of great content and lots of great DMs. That's the formula for success.

Anything else in my humble opinion is an attempt to get hobby built static content to substitute for person to person interaction - if WoW and other professionally built systems with literally tons of static content failed to provide anything other than mindless interaction with computers, there is no way ALFA can build anything similar in terms of content. Gaming versus a computer I can do on my own on any number of platforms with my friends.

[Adanu]

I have to agree with Castano here. Yes, spreading out population can be bad... but players will naturally gravitate to where the most fun is; or we we like to call it DM campaigns and population.

Having variety is always good... I know that I enjoy being able to go between MS and BG.

Just because the board is 40x40 doesn't mean you won't see the whole fight in a 5x5 area at the corner.

[I-KP]

I have to agree with Castano here.

I can see both sides of the argument but one side strikes me as being somewhat idealistically driven and rooted in nostalgia with little or no evidence that the view will actually work in today’s gaming climate. Of which side do I speak? The anti-cutbacks camp.

I dearly want Castano's position to be true because it paints a very rosy picture of the state of the game; however, in my experience of NWN over the years I cannot name a single game where expanding has resulted in a recovery from a dwindling player base. I can however name two games where when confronted with falling player numbers they trimming down on areas[1] and aborted expansion plans which resulted in an improved game for all who remained: Haze and Exodus.

Whilst I agree in part with Castano that culling servers will not in and of itself result in more players - I disagree that it will “kill” the project, this I believe to be merely scaremongering - what it will achieve is a more concentrated thus more interactive experience for the players and DMs that ALFA has left. Furthermore - and this point I believe to be the clincher in the argument - I would argue that the appeal to new players of an ALFA with two highly active servers would significantly outweigh the appeal of an ALFA with as many as half a dozen often barren servers populated by a largely nomadic interest group (which is pretty much what we have now). RP of the kind that ALFA prides itself on is first and foremost a social activity after all so ALFA should be re-doubling efforts to improve the chances of interaction and not sanctioning effort that will merely spread it out even thinner. (My previous toast and Marmite analogy notwithstanding!)

[1] Trimming down on servers/areas does not have to equate to less content: channel all creative effort into improving the servers that are live.

TL;DR: Tegid and Duck One have a point. IMO, the current logic for expansion stands out as being starkly incongruous within an arena of gaming wherein player numbers are universally on the decline. High levels of interactivity, i.e., better concentration, will do more for player retention than vast, unpopulated areas will ever accomplish.


EDIT: To the OP: Please excuse the slight subject creep but we're all really talking about the same thing in these many and varied threads.