Dear admin

[Dorn]

I have noticed a reduction in player numbers and DM on servers (DM numbers often being roughly proportional to player numbers). Note i am in a whack timezone so this may not be true for Euro/US. If not...ignore!

But watching the player/Dm widget while i'ma t work seems to show lower numbers.

I think this is because:
a) We now have membership spread over 3 servers (3.5 if you include exodus and the few players that are not already common) instead of 1...as well as accross several timezones.

b) Since 2004 when i joined many of us have grown old, got married, had kids and got promotions so cant play as much. And there aint so many whipper snappers around to replace us.

c) Some people playing less or stopping due to lack of challenges for higher levels, or because they find it hard to find others given a) above and less time given b)

I think the following ideas should be CONSIDERED by admin and discarded if it's not to their liking. I'd float these ideas as part of lead admin platform (to be shot down as appropriate ) to guage the plebs but i honestly dont have the time to dedicate with new son and heavy work committments.

Purpose:
To have ALFA sustainable.

Objective:
1) increase server 'load' of players DMs
2) get more people in the door

Recommendations:
1) Cap further servers.
I think the 'if people want to built them then we'll add them' policy is now unsustainable. there is enough variability to allow Dms and players

If in a year things get worse, decommission one except for campaigns?

2) Encourage Modules not servers
People should build modules that can be attached and/or removed from existing servers depending on campaigns (eg a collection of underdark areas that could be bolted on to TSM or BG, a Mountainous area that could be bolted onto TSM or BG). This may require the removal of some areas on the current servers that get visited once in a blue moon to make way for memory?

3) 'Theme' server risk
Set direction that over the next year the server teams should slowly adjust their servers to represent either Low level, moderate level, high level challenges. This would concentrate players of like level and like capacity for partying to undertake statics or random party adventuring. Of course having safe areas that anyone can go for a bit of variet is a must (areas close to cities?). It also wouldn 't proclude high level adventures in the 'low level' server. This would just requires a DM. (or alternatively some of the 'modules' in Recommendation 2 could be attached to a low level server and loaded with high level nasties for a time).

4) Starting server
Recommend a starting server, make it REALLY obvious for new players and make it the one with the most DMs and players. Review every 3-6 months. Of course after recommendation 3 it kinda needs to be the low level server

5) Review tech priorities
What are the things that are likely to encourage people to come to a server? What's likely to make life easier and funner for a DM? Those two could be the priority for ALs team putting aside new feats on weapons, magical earings, or something.

5) Review standards and rules 'principles'
Classes are already unbalanced, rules and feats are already broken, DnD doesn't make sense...we'll never fix it. We've already banned the most horrible things (although perhaps a bit too much....dash for example..how many CvCs have ther been?). Set clear principles for the teams to work on things that enablerather than restrict to the piont where the objectives of the team should be used in our advertising to the NWN2 community as things of interest (ok not seriously, but you know what I mean).

6) Incentives for breathing life into the game
Lets think outside the box.

Re-examine DM, builder, scripter/tech rewards for PCs in terms of exp or levels or PrC awards or extraordinary PC allowances (min service threshold required ) - Maybe i'm not so sure about other staff. I think maybe the ones mentioned above takes more dedication and time after holding various positions around ALFA over the last ~8 years. Could be wrong.

"Play-by-post" - stories and RP that add to the server could be rewarded by (H)DMs? It takes longer to write a page long story that adds to the 'persistance' of the worl than it does to finish a static for 100exp. Also will allow Dms to keep the 'story' of a server giong responsing to "RP" rather than just having to use the rumour thread. So it's subjective and some might get more than others as DMs like their writing better *shrugs*. Noone gets penalised....it's just smeon gets a few extra pionts of exp. As it's all a bonus surely we can be grown up about it.

7) Review 'extending a hand to exodus'
If in a year from now things are degrading. Maybe some hard decisions/sacrifices are required.

Review charter/pillers/whatever
If in a year from now things are degrading. Reconsider:
a) If Dms can play and DM on the same server - given the very low numbers required to trigger something like this, reading logs will show cheating up pretty easily
b) On PC per player - same reason as above

9) Step up advertising
Ok so maybe we dont need to, admittedly i'm not accross what rotku and others have been doing. But if we change anything lwets keep pushing the message.
Are we "advertising" on Wizards otC and DnD fansites? These would now seem to be our bread and butter as much as the NWN2 community.

10) I got nothing.
Just wanted a 10 point plan.

11) No wait!...one more.
Start a 1-2 year campaign that's obvious (eg able to be posted on our homepage and on other NWN2 boards) and is starting in 3 months (give time to prepare and advertise..hold competitions for intro stories and images/logos for it). May capture peoples imagination and get them in. This may need to be timed after current DM campaigns....or feed into?

None of these are things that should be knee-jerk decisions. Just for thought by Admin...particularly Lead as this sort of 'policy' is where they should be taking a 'lead'.

Happy to be flamed

PS - yes i did become a DM for a while both in alfa1 and 2 before you say "feel free to become a DM" Given my Rl i'm just not a very reliable, dependable or good one hence me stopping.

[lakhena]

+1

I have been finding it difficult to be motivated and log in as a new player, when the server numbers are low and I don't think I'll be able to find other people. I think making it easier for players to find each other in game would help tremendously. (Not to dig against TSM, but it's really hard to do that on TSM for some reason -- maybe it's the main city layout?)

I also think people just need to log in and play, with or without dms.

[oldgrayrogue]

Since October 8, 2010 we have 25 new members. I suspect part of the drop off you are seeing is due to players being busy with end of semester exams, holiday travel and obligations etc. I know this time of year affects my playing time.

[mogonk]

Opinions differ.

I don't think the playerbase is a problem, I think the paucity of DMs discourages many players from logging on so the population seems much lower than it is. OGR is certainly correct that the time of year isn't helping.

Some seem to be of the opinion that there is not a problem; that everything is fine. So there's the possibility that for them, the system is functioning as intended. I can only explain the divergence of opinion on this issue as attributable to widely differing expectations in combination with widely differing experiences. The fact that playing time, server choice, and interpersonal relationships within the ALFA social network make such a huge difference, combined with the fact that some people want to play 3 hours a weeks and some people want to play 20, results in a situation where nobody can agree on what the state of ALFA is, or what it should be. We're the blind men, ALFA is the elephant.

That being said, I think almost all of your ideas are good ones.

[Audark]

Please bear in mind also, before I even address all the other stuff, that zicbot and the forum widget are broken as hell. Frequently there are 10 or more people on TSM for example and it shows zero.

I would also like to say that my experience in alfa of late has been excellent, DM attention somewhat light of late of TSM but moonshaes has been jumping and BG even has had good numbers on scheduled DM times. I've seen things actually get better since moonshaes went live, it gave people more options. If you're playing on moonshaes and getting DM time, you're more likely to DM on one of the other two servers. I know you proposal for playing and DMing on same, I can't see that passing, we have a deep fear of meta in alfa it seems, I doubt it can be overcome.

Still, I'm glad for the post, you're thinking, generating ideas, and I will shake my head if this degrades.

I think it is crucial we focus on one thing at a time mate, a big ass post with so many competing ideas will of course go down in flames. Propose one thing at a time and there is some hope. This may kickstart ideas but it won't be adopted in any form as is.

I think with the new members and the new server and from what I'm seeing we're on the cusp of getting more DM attention, which will in turn inspire players to play more. These things go in waves and there's no need for doom-saying.

A 1-2 year campaign simply is not feasibly my friend, not anymore. What makes players play is DM attention, even if it's small interactions, go raid this camp, ad hoc, day to day stuff. Everyone who has run a big campaign on TSM faded out and I think always will, the work involved is tremendous.

We are volunteers, we play when we play we build when we build, we dm when we DM.


Some stuff seems obvious:
Advertise
More DM attention

and i think thats enough really, the player base is big, and all it needs sometimes is something exciting in game, I've seen 10 or so on both TSM and Moonshaes and I think thats glorious.

Euro DMs are almost non-existent, as far as I can tell that is the only reason our euro players log in rarely. Even then I still see 5 or 6 booting around on TSM at all times of the day.

I'm glad you're thinking, but simple is better, more DMs will come in time (I have applied for one) and with that will come more player interest, once a player is settled ona server they may feel inclined to DM on another one, and I think this, above all else, will improve the day to day experience of alfa, and I think it is on the cusp of happening already

darkest before the dawn perhaps or maybe I'm just an optimist

[Veilan]

This game only works if it is multiplayer. Therefore, concentration is a major issue. While it is awesome to see new areas and the great building and effort that went into those servers, the fact of the matter is that... we're scraped like butter over too much bread.

[mogonk]

A 1-2 year campaign simply is not feasibly my friend, not anymore. What makes players play is DM attention, even if it's small interactions, go raid this camp, ad hoc, day to day stuff. Everyone who has run a big campaign on TSM faded out and I think always will, the work involved is tremendous.

What has happened may predict, but does not determine, what will happen.

Has anybody ever gotten 4-5 DMs together and cooperatively engaged in creating a campaign of that scale, to create converging storylines among multiple player groups? That would go a long way towards distributing the work required. Hell, I know of many players who build but don't DM. Recruit them to help on the campaign. Obviously, everyone is a volunteer, but to the greatest extent possible we should try to recruit builders to create areas for DM events, as opposed to just "cool places to wander around in".

I don't see any reason why that couldn't work.

While it is awesome to see new areas and the great building and effort that went into those servers, the fact of the matter is that... we're scraped like butter over too much bread.

QFT

[dergon darkhelm]

I don't think the playerbase is a problem, I think the paucity of DMs discourages many players from logging on so the population seems much lower than it is.

Yep. More DMs would solve many, many problems.



It's just that DMs are a rarer breed. I used to be an addicted PnP DM. I would prep for 2 hours for every one played .....it was like nearly having a second job.

I'm sorry, but I just don't have that drive any more. Most people enjoy playing more than they enjoy DMing, now myself included. I'm trying to DM here, but finding it a challenge to *want* to do it.

Even with that need for DMs, however, I am still opposed to same server DMing. I've been in that environment outside of ALFA and have found that it increases cliquishness and the "wink wink" factor. No reason to play on the same server you DM. Actually I think you should get as far away from your player group as possible.


I encourage anyone who has the time and drive to pick up the DM wand! I will give thanks.

Hell, I'd even make a $$ donation to DMs in a recruitment fund. Set it up anonymously and let people paypal to help DMs with a bit of cash .........maybe it's not the wisest idea ever but ...........just spitballing here.

[Adanu]

I would consider DMing, but my character goes all over the place too much to not play on a specific server.

I do DM on Exodus, and I've not had problems with separating 'meta' as it were though. Some people can handle it and some can't I've found.

[oldgrayrogue]

Like Audark I want to point out that I believe the addition of Moonshaes has helped draw new members and opens up more possibilities for players to DM. I think Skullport will do the same, as it provides the opportunity for a "nefarious" type of RP that does not have to be clandestine. I believe that our multiple server format is the biggest draw we have in ALFA.

As PA I also see new applications coming in steadily. Keep in mind we have accepted 25 new members over the last 2 months or so, we have received many more applications.

As to DMage, I have seen fairly frequent DM'd content on Moonshaes since it went live with an active team. On BG, Mira, Jayde, DD and Ksiel have been DMing fairly regularly, witha few new DMs soon to join the ranks there I believe. On TSM, Viigas of course has his steady campaign and has also been branching out recently. Mira and Jayde visit there as well and Regas has been active on TSM recently as well. I also see Swift DMing from time to time, and all of this just in my time zone.

Any drop off in players logged on or DMs is due to the season IMO. This pretty much happens at certain times every year.

IMO two things that would help along the lines of the OPs suggestions are 1) basic static quests and content on all live servers so that players have a context to group up and adventure around when no DM is on and 2) more frequent ad hoc mini DM'd events. Both get the player base logging on more often and not simply joining on on scheduled campaign times. A few stocked dungeons for higher level PCs on each server would be a plus as well. Playing in a campaign is fine, but it can be exclusionary of other players. More ad hoc and static content (in addition to campaigns) spreads the love to all players and gives them more of a reason to log on regularly.

[NESchampion]

An increase in DMs is always welcome; TSM has been shy on EST coverage with the holidays and Mirabai taking over as HDM of BG I think. As others have mentioned though, the widget is broken as all getout and things have been running pretty well recently I think. Moonshaes helped bump up numbers in fact.

[Dorn]

Good to hear its the widget player numbers are ok and most are getting good groups together.
It must be my timezone as it's been Sm 0, BG 0, MS 0 on gamespy almost all the time fore me in recent weeks. Then again, my timezone has always sucked...for nwn

In terms the the responses otherwise, there are many saying 'more DM time would solve problems/be welcome' etc.

In my experience with ALFA past you have more DMs when you have more players. Saying we need more DMs without driving up player numbers does not has not worked. Not for sustained long term DMs. (uinless perhaps we think about the rewards recommendation?).

So the above recommendations i guess still stand at some point if player concentrations (and hence DM concentrations) might want to be upped.

I think it is crucial we focus on one thing at a time mate, a big ass post with so many competing ideas will of course go down in flames. Propose one thing at a time and there is some hope. This may kickstart ideas but it won't be adopted in any form as is.

It's for Admin/leadership to discard, prioritise and implement. I'm just brainstorming as per the thread.

Besides..i dont think any of them compete. They could all be done at the same time if someone wanted to go completely nuts.

A 1-2 year campaign simply is not feasibly my friend, not anymore. What makes players play is DM attention, even if it's small interactions, go raid this camp, ad hoc, day to day stuff. Everyone who has run a big campaign on TSM faded out and I think always will, the work involved is tremendous.

By a campaign i mean a storyline. The shade war in ALFA1 went on for years had two wars in two servers, and all lots of nefarious behind the scenese stuff in others, even down to agricultural issues that neede resolution in some. ALmost all the 'west alfa' servers were on. Even without DMs we had a lot to talk about sides formed, spying and intruige, research quests etc. Kinda something for every new DM to work within a greater direction/theme. And only have one or two people release info to the Dm corp every 3 month or something in case DMs want to stop and start playing.
*shrugs* Just an advertising hook to get people not on alfa to think "shiiit, i'd LOVE to get involved in something like tghat...i've got the perfect char concept."

I think that's doable. I agree that Dm/party specific campaigns sometimes dont work due to burnout. But at least if they do burn oput they would have had SOMETHIGN to do with a greater plan and someone else in the future could link it to their own mini-campaign.

[Audark]

I really do appreciate the effort Dorn, I'm sorry if I seem a wet blanket.

I agree more players equals more DMs, however I would aim for more players in general, not necessarily just a higher concentration. So long as we retain a 'no DMing where we play' rule, which I remain in favour of, we require a diversity of servers to allow players and player groups to get some distance from one another. ALFA active player numbers are probably a little under double what they were before Moonshaes went live. This is likely due to Castano and team having very active DMing and drawing people in there and keeping them there.

As a result of increased interest in Moonshaes, there are more of those same players considering DMing TSM and BG. With only two servers many did not want to DM simply because it meant they could never travel.

A more aggressive approach to attracting, approving and retaining new members is crucial, but so is the wide breadth of servers to allow players to feel comfortable picking up the DM wand on a different server. I firmly believe ALFA can support about 4 or 5 servers and the variety in those will be able to cater to different playstyles and attract different people.

Some of those servers may only be used for campaign style play, some may sit largely vacant. That is alright in my mind. If we put the information in the hands of the players, they will take care of themselves. If euro types get attention on one, it should be made very clear, eastern time on another, posted and stickied. I like your idea of a notional starting server, but I do not quite agree that we need to adjust content as a result. I think saying to all new folk, we suggest starting on server A' is enough.

Anyways, we agree on some things, but likely disagree on others, that is alright. I am glad you're tossing ideas around and trying to find solutions. I do not think we are in bad shape at all, I've found a very strong player base that is missing some DM attention, but even that is being remedied hopefully.

I am also not at all opposed to your big campaign idea, something of the sort may be taking place already, Mirabai and Jaydemoon are 'global' DMs and have plots on all servers that are distinct now but form the basis of a larger interwoven plot at a later time. It's a hard thing to advertise I think, just know that more grandiose plots are underway.

Anyways, that's all for now, thanks for caring enough to toss ideas around, I know ideas are met rather harshly at times, I do appreciate the effort mate

[danielmn]

As a partial response, I agree with the above estimation that 4-5 servers for ALFA would probably be the optimal server number. With WHL and Skullport in the works, I see little need of putting work into more until such time as the base grows. All servers need not be active at all times, and having a variety to travel to and from makes ALFA what it is.

[Hialmar]

I will try to fix the server widget.

I have only witnessed the problem once, so it could be tricky to fix but I'll at least review the code and see if I can find a big problem there.

As for the rest, more servers = more possibilities for player/DMs = more players in fine.
We just need to wait a bit.

Also please note that NWN2 is an old game and this doesn't help us.
Look at the example of Xerxes who wanted to come back and had a lot of problems just buying the game.

I hope the new Neverwinter game will attract people towards NWN2 when they are tired of playing without DMs.

Edit: I have corrected a potential bug in the code of the servers widget. It would report 0 players if the database connection wouldn't work temporarily (which can happen if the website/forum is used a lot) and this would stay for 10 minutes.