invisibility, again

[hollyfant]

So, eh... about that invisibility thing. I think the whole Neverwinter community has given up on ever seeing a new patch, and no "fool proof" solutions are available. What to do now?

I imagine the 6th level warlocks, 3rd level wizards and trickery clerics, 4th level sorcerers and ditto bards really want their spell/invocation back. And we can't very well let people buy the potion only to have a fatwa against actually drinking it. Or worse: varying rules across varying servers. "No, I can't make us invisible any more. We just crossed the county line."

Options:

1. Keep the current situation. Invisibility is available on items and in spell lists, but its use is banned on specific servers by executive decision of the local HDM.
2. Let invisibility back in, and watch some monsters die without a chance or be avoided indefinitely.
3. Ban the spell and invocation formally. Withdraw potions, wands and scrolls. Refund wizards, reroll sorcerers, bards and warlocks.

Yeah, all three suck. The current situation sucks and requires DM policing, option two sucks and still requires policing and the third possibility requires a massive rebuilding/rerolling operation.

What to do

[Rotku]

Clearly the obvious solution, when faced with such a problem, is to hang up your bags and go cry in the corner. Therefore, I suggest we just shut down the entire ALFA project and call it a failed day.

[hollyfant]

I suggest we just shut down the entire ALFA project and call it a failed day.

I second the motion. Let's call it quits, folk.

[Veilan]

I suggest we just shut down the entire ALFA project and call it a failed day.

I second the motion. Let's call it quits, folk.

Finally, a chance to use all those tumble-weeds I collected.

[Brokenbone]

#2 with a ban on use in CvC except if hand-managed by a DM (someone fires invisibility = pause the game, sit around with a dicebag and roll people's listen skills)?

#2 with a heartfelt plea not to exploit it with an explanation of what we mean by exploiting?

#2 with a scripted drain of 100xp every time someone fires off an invisibility power of any kind (which can be restored by a DM if they find the use of invisibility was lovely, above board, not in any way exploity... such as if it was in a DM event)?

#2 with a scripted spawning of an undroppable inventory token saying "I cast invisibility on (date X) and will explain why to the DM team ASAP"?

***

And/or permit rerolls, refunds, whatever, if someone doesn't want to work in a paperwork heavy world. I.e., "turn in your invis items for gold or similar value stuff, turn in your DETECT invis stuff for gold or similar value stuff, sure, de-level and re-level to pick your sorc/bard/war powers, etc.

Jeez, Invisibility is just one of those core, like, must haves in fantasy, sucks that it's screwed up.

[oldgrayrogue]

#2 with a heartfelt plea not to exploit it with an explanation of what we mean by exploiting?

This seems the most logical option to me. If its abused we will deal with it.

[Veilan]

if its abused we will deal with it.

"We"? It would be the DM team, tasked with more log parsing and enforcement rather than DMing.

[Brokenbone]

That's why I tongue in cheek suggested something that would make a user seek out a DM (as in OMG I lost 100xp and shouldn't have) or would "stick out" like a token as opposed to a log scanning exercise. Turning a user's hair and skin green so DMs notice them might be a little over the top to other peoples' immersion. (I went invis and a dyepack blew up on me...)

[Blindhamsterman]

as I character that would like to be able to cast said spell again in the future (and make use of its counter spells)

I like the option of either a minus to exp (I assume it can never cause actual level loss) or a token, both options would require an onevent script to be written as their only major downside (more work for AL or someone else willing to give it a shot - I can have a look later today if it would indeed be desired).

I like the token idea more, I must admit, both will have the same effect in that a DM can easily see who has used it and ask why and/or a player can go straight to a dm via a PM on the forums to explain if they prefer.

in CvC, which should have a DM present anyway, I think a pause and dice roll listen skill would be the best way to handle it (same thing can be done in DM ran events where the DM feels its really important such as the tense retreat from the big old dragon)

[Curmudgeon]

Agreed, the current situation stinks. Barring a community fix, I might be convinced to go with some variant of #2.

CvC definitely needs to be included in whatever resolution we find.

[paazin]

Agreed, the current situation stinks. Barring a community fix, I might be convinced to go with some variant of #2.

CvC definitely needs to be included in whatever resolution we find.

Seems the most logical course. Playin' a squishy caster I saw firsthand how frustrating it was without it when there was something like a troll or ogre sitting smack dab in the road.

CvC seems to be where it's most important to have a DM about, really (other than in cases of gross exploitation in monster-hunting).

[hollyfant]

Well what would be a sensible list of restrictions?

• No using invisibility in a CvC situation (offensively nor as a defence) without DM supervision. Anyone instigating CvC without a DM present will make baby Drizz't cry anyway.
• No using invisibility to circumvent any monster, NPC or PC if you pass within... thirty feet? Fifty minus your Move Silently skill? ...without DM supervision.
• No casting of invisibility on an unwilling subject, as they then can no longer hide by mundane means.
• Any use of invisibility in any form must be reported afterwards to a DM.

And it would be nice if the use of invisibility in any form showed up in the log parser, to avoid having to go through the logs manually.

[bartleby]

*casts invisibility on thread*

[Happycrow]

I think in terms of abuse, using invis to slip past a critter isn't a horrible abuse. A DM who's on can always keep a character on his or her toes that way.

*Ogre sniffs. Ogre follows wizard, drooling.*

Using invis the way some players do (and I'm speaking of experience in other PWs, not here) to cross scores of miles of countryside without ever having to worry about encounters, otoh, is a more serious thing, as it is basically an exploit on the in-game timer vs. the "your spell would have fizzled long ago, buddy" reality factor.

[NickD]

[*]No using invisibility to circumvent any monster, NPC or PC if you pass within... thirty feet? Fifty minus your Move Silently skill? ...without DM supervision.

How would this work for the old use of an invisibilty potion, whereby a character is about to get killed in melee, so drinks an invis potion to escape?