Exodus Integration : A Poll

[oldgrayrogue]

In response to some of the points Dan made, I agree that the DMs are way overloaded, and should not be expected to police rule breakers as well. I played on a server where we had community members called "RPA's" or RP Advisers who did all that grunt work. I was an RPA. We had limited client access and investigated and handled most policing and disciplinary matters -- kind of like our AR's under the PA here in ALFA (except we can't get on the client to enforce standards etc). Perhaps this is something that could be taken off of the DM plate entirely to address the concerns Dan and others have raised which are legitimate.

[Magile]

I had originally voted the final option, to refrain from merging. In retrospect, I think it is time to take down the wall if the powers that caused the split are truly gone. I have changed to the second option, though I would rather there not be the difference between communities at all and just have one PC a person, for the sake of being able to actually travel across "that bridge."

edit: I'd also like to say that I agree with DMN's post on the rules and pillars.

[Sidhe]

as long as i don't have to deal with java, ever, you can do whatever you like as far as im concerned.

I feel the need to address this as it has been raised in #ALFA and now comes to this thread. Morden you were banned from #exodus for sporting nicks such as c*nt, rape and f*ck. This is clearly unacceptable in a mature community and after several complaints from other members and warnings from java you were booted. You did not change your ways and you were subsequently banned. Simple. You are more than welcome to play in Amn any time you like but your behaviour in IRC is lacking.

I realise this is totally unrelated and off topic but I feel the need to dispel what could be negativity misconstrued due to other reasons.

Back on topic:

I see allot of valid points being raised here and much level headed discussion. However I also see something’s becoming contention points when really they shouldn’t;

- Level 3 starts: This is a recent addition to exo, something that the Council talked about for over two months before we decided. All in all we have found that it does not hinder any RP or 'cheapen' the experience. What it does allow is a bit more flexibility and creativity on the players behalf, and of course some solid foundation.

From what I have been told and read an ALFA PC can hit 5 in a month or two via grinding statics like a madman. We have few (and these were only included very recently) statics in exo and all exp is either via timed RP or DM handout. We have found an exo pc can expect to hit around 5-6 in about as many months. As a guide an 8-9 level PC has taken around the 2 year mark (without level 3 starts). Painfully slow - this of course has been addressed and knowing that I hope you can see why level 3 starts have worked for us.

Level 3 starts vs. MMO like grinding for the same result...I don’t see much difference.

Alt PC's: Again another recent addition. We allowed alts so our players could take advantage of DM time and adventures that did not make sense for their main PC to be involved in. It gets dull for both players and DM's to watch a higher level PC 'babysit' or 'railroad' a lower level quest and vice versa, or to watch a player sit out because it just doesn’t make sense in general. We found that regardless very few of our players opted for the opportunity to play alts, and those who did, did so for the above reasons.

Alt in this sense, the merging of ALFA and Exo, is due to a very different reason. It is out of respect for those who have become ’ye olde’ parts of both communities; some of which have invested over 2+ years in their exo PC and have most likely invested the same in their ALFA PC. To flat out force them to choose, or to deny them, is not only cruel but unnecessary when we can reach compromise for this select group.

Old Grudges: It has been stated many times already; the persons involved in the original ‘exodus’ from ALFA are no longer involved with or have a say in anything that goes on with Exodus: Amn. To this effect the majority of our philosophies and outlooks are /very/ similar in both communities. In fact as it has been highlighted by players in both arenas’ it makes perfect sense for Amn to become an ALFA server.

All in all these are just my opinions. I did not bring this proposition of merger forward to incite revolution in the way ALFA does things, quite the opposite. In the end it was about bringing more people together to have fun and enjoy D&D in this form. In the end our differences are cosmetic.

Edit: FOr what it is worth I voted for 2 PC's untill death.

[Mord]

**

[Swift]

Alt in this sense, the merging of ALFA and Exo, is due to a very different reason. It is out of respect for those who have become ’ye olde’ parts of both communities; some of which have invested over 2+ years in their exo PC and have most likely invested the same in their ALFA PC. To flat out force them to choose, or to deny them, is not only cruel but unnecessary when we can reach compromise for this select group.

Thus making a small group of 'special' members allowed to play two characters as long as they want (if they are careful) which would be looked on more and more as unfair as time goes on.

Failing that, you will see a sudden rise in numbers of low level PCs on Exodus from current ALFA players wishing to have a second character that would then have to be allowed to ensure the "2 PCs until death" rule is fair to all, not just those who played in both communities from before some arbitrary time. It is unfair to penalize those who simply did not have the time to play in both communities back when Exodus first started up.

Whatever happens, we cannot let ourselves into a situation that leads to different rules for different players.

[Veilan]

Hm, Swift, even I don't see a problem with no char creations if you have a char already (ASAP), and giving a maximum six month time window to let people who now have two characters decide (obviously less if one of them dies - since no new creations). And I usually see a lot of problems... . But here, it's not like anyone "planned" to do this or that. Of course, unlimited time is far too much, I agree that that would lead to perceptions of unfair treatment.

Of course, vigilance should be rather high, but with everyone professing policing of bad apples should and can be done, I'm fine with giving it a try. As BB pointed out, if it for some reason doesn't work at all (which I doubt), people can always say "nice try" and go back to what the prefer. No bridging for duals, obviously, and free travel for people who have only one char... once we've checked the technical compatibility, as well as campaign wise, i.e. server and chars.

Also, banning Mord seems like an Exodus policy we should contemplate implementing.

[Sandermann]

From what I have been told and read an ALFA PC can hit 5 in a month or two via grinding statics like a madman.

On TSM one can. Please remember ALFA has two servers with slightly different approaches to how this kind of behaviour is viewed.

[Blindhamsterman]

based on ALFAs guidline of up to 1k exp per week, if a PC gets that through playing often and hitting multiple DM events (very possible, especially if theres an active DM)

2 months is 8-9k exp depending on when in the year it is, making a PC almost level 5 (1-2k exp off)

level 5 in a little over two months therefore fits into guidlines. Little point debating that, its how it is.

There are some who hit level 5 in a matter of a couple of weeks, which may or may not be an issue, but again people levelling quickly is going to happen if they play often. Short of adding a cap where you are unable to gain over a set amount of exp per day/week.

However it also likely causes issue for some when a PC levels to 6/7 in 6 months (even though 6*4*1000 is 24000, the exp for 7th is 21000) which arguably in many eyes (at one point my own included) is very very fast. My first PC took a year to hit 6th, I found it shocking that folk less than half his age were already his level or in some cases higher.. This however is a fact of life when DMs become more common, and when events end up with perhaps more combat than was once the norm *shrug*

There are or were some that possibly could be described as MMO style grinders but I believe most of those left recently.

Exodus and ALFA also both use the same timed exp scripts right? if so a PC could gain a little over 1k exp just from logging in a total of 40 hours a week, which isn't all that much for a lot of people when they dont have work etc to deal with... consider a person logging in for 30 or so therefore but getting into 1 DMd even, again thats about 1k a week.

As I already said the easiest way to combat that would be to simply cap how much exp a PC gets in a week/day.

Regardless, thats diverging from the point somewhat, mostly wanted to point out that it's not people 'grinding like an MMO player' but simply the way the system (in both worlds) is set up currently, perhaps some don't see it because they dont log in too often, while others do because they have no life (count me in for the first 3-4 months of my current PC, I had so much free time and no idea what to do with it, so logging in and RPing with whoever is about or just wandering about ends up happening because our game is addictive and often it appeals more than any of the other games we might have available).

Anyway, just my $0.02

[CloudDancing]

From what I have been told and read an ALFA PC can hit 5 in a month or two via grinding statics like a madman.

On TSM one can. Please remember ALFA has two servers with slightly different approaches to how this kind of behaviour is viewed.

The last player who really abused the system was diciplined thought not in a 'natural consequences" type manner. Instead of loosing a few levels, they got a 24 hour ban. This person had compatriots as well that did statics and cave farmed, but what saved them? Impeccable RP while doing so.

Anti-social powerlevelers still die alone in the end. Or in stagnation.

[oldgrayrogue]

I'll chime in on this latest derailment of this thread to express the opinion that there is nothing inherently wrong with doing statics and crawling through a cave or dungeon when playing D&D. The static quests are there to be enjoyed and completed. The static content is there to provide immersion to the setting, enrich the experience, help players develop relationships with other PCs, and yes provide players with RP opportunities other than "tavern RP" when DMs are not around (i.e. "adventuring"). Loading or grinding static content in order to powerlevel and gain wealth is the problem, and one that in my opinion can be adequately addressed on a case by case basis after an issue becomes apparent. In my experience the players who abuse the rules and the static content quickly become known to everyone, and eventually get caught and sanctioned, unless they are very crafty about it. I would hate to see static content scaled back or eliminated to preclude even the opportunity to break the rules. I continue to believe that we should not permit a few bad apples to ruin the potential fun (within the rules) for everyone.

As far as the rate of advancement for players who play the game like a full time job, and who are not abusing statics, grinding etc., game balance and level rates are DM moderated in ALFA. If someone plays so much that they are in almost every DM'd event and get tons of scripted RP XP, then I would suggest DMs just reward them with gold or some other tangible as opposed to more XP to keep the rate of leveling balanced and moderated. Most PCs in ALFA are below or at average wealth I believe, so this offers an easy solution. I am sure players who are in it for the RP and not the XP won't mind getting some wealth, an RP item, possibly a public commendation by the authorities or some such as a reward instead of more XP.

[Mord]

From what I have been told and read an ALFA PC can hit 5 in a month or two via grinding statics like a madman.

On TSM one can. Please remember ALFA has two servers with slightly different approaches to how this kind of behaviour is viewed.

The last player who really abused the system was diciplined thought not in a 'natural consequences" type manner. Instead of loosing a few levels, they got a 24 hour ban. This person had compatriots as well that did statics and cave farmed, but what saved them? Impeccable RP while doing so.

Anti-social powerlevelers still die alone in the end. Or in stagnation.

I would say power-gaming in itself is pretty far removed from impeccable role-play. if I shoot someone, but I'm courteous about it, is it still murder?

[Sandermann]

The last player who really abused the system was diciplined thought not in a 'natural consequences" type manner. Instead of loosing a few levels, they got a 24 hour ban. This person had compatriots as well that did statics and cave farmed, but what saved them? Impeccable RP while doing so.

Anti-social powerlevelers still die alone in the end. Or in stagnation.

This shows a misunderstanding of our rules and how they are applied. This thread has already been de-railed enough so I wont go into it further, but its complete nonsense.

[Rotku]

This thread has already been de-railed enough

Exactly. Back on topic here guys. At least back on to something that vaguely resembles the topic.

[Electryc]

Also, banning Mord seems like an Exodus policy we should contemplate implementing.

+1

[javajutsu]

... it would be good to know how many active players Exodus has to offer.

A fair question, zicada.

According to what Rotku told me, ALFA has about 30-40 currently active players. Exodus has about 15 currently active players, about half of whom are also active at ALFA.

(As an aside: Yeah, we each have hundreds of people registered to our forums. Exodus had a list of over 600 before we lost our former web site and player database. But, arguably, what really matters is the active player population; and how much overlap there is.)

If the numbers above are anywhere near accurate, roughly 20% of ALFA and 50% of Exodus currently active players are already playing on each other's servers.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.