4th edition - now what do I do?

[fluffmonster]

Lucifer is right in that any discussion about rulesets runs the risks of forgetting the most basic truth about DnD...that it is a game of imagination.

[Mulu]

Well, sort of....


There are rulesets, and there are rulesets, as it turns out. As a function of taste and style, some rulesets will be more practical, functional, more fun, less for, or... more likely to make you puke your guts out in a blinding rage of venom. Purely as a function of taste, of course.

3.5 edition D&D. 3.5 edition FR. Recruiting from adult hobbyists, forget about the college kids and their MMO based RP games.

At least I saved myself some money. I already have almost everything I need, including my favorite splat books.

Thanks for the input and advice! Information is always good, especially when it prevents you from making a huge mistake!

Enjoy the game!

[pangolin]

I got one word for you:
Pathfinder

[Mulu]

I'll look into it. I have heard of it favorably from others. I won't bother to review it here.

[Rotku]

I'll look into it. I have heard of it favorably from others. I won't bother to review it here.

Feel free to. Would be interested to hear what you have to say on the matter.

[Spider Jones]

It's not per se what I would call a roleplaying game...

Most mechanics that were not combat related have been removed in the "streamlining" process. That said, I'm not a firm believer that system matters absolutely. RP is possible, the system just leans even less toward RP than previous editions.

Monsters are a lot more fun to run when DMing in 4th edition compared to any previous version of the game. They are a lot more unique, even the different humanoid races that were practically identical in 3.5/3rd have unique powers that define them.

On the other hand, there's a lot of new stuff to keep track of in combat that slows it down. Besides each creature having unique powers, each of these creature powers and PC powers have various effects and they all end at different times (until save ends, until end/start of PCs next turn, until end/start of monsters next turn). Keeping track of all the unique effects in a battle can be bothersome.

[Veilan]

It's not per se what I would call a roleplaying game...

Most mechanics that were not combat related have been removed in the "streamlining" process. That said, I'm not a firm believer that system matters absolutely. RP is possible, the system just leans even less toward RP than previous editions.

So why omit the second half of my sentence?

but we all know platform matters less than attitude - you can roleplay chess if you want, after all.

On the other hand, there's a lot of new stuff to keep track of in combat that slows it down. Besides each creature having unique powers, each of these creature powers and PC powers have various effects and they all end at different times (until save ends, until end/start of PCs next turn, until end/start of monsters next turn). Keeping track of all the unique effects in a battle can be bothersome.

I agree here. Luckily, it builds up gradually through levels, so if you take levelling slow, you'll have time to catch up and get acquainted with, or find a good way of organising yourself a little rough sheet that you can use from encounter to encounter.

Of course, it also screams for a computer adaption that will keep track of everything for you .

[Swift]

Of course, it also screams for a computer adaption that will keep track of everything for you .

Im pretty sure you could almost just point to WoW and say "That, with less buttons to press"

[Hialmar]

On the subject of the computer adaptation, anyone know what is the status of the one they announced when D&D4 was first announced ?

Of course if you have to subscribe to DnD Insider then it's not that good because of the price of it.

Edit: did a little google search and ended up finding this: http://dnd.pfhoenix.com/ anyone used it ? The encounter management tool seems interesting.

[HATEFACE]

I remember seeing the youtube videos about that. Is this what you're talking about?

[NickD]

A quick look around the internet shows the "digital gaming table" was supposed to be available as part of the DnD Insider subscription ($8/month), but ended up getting scrapped.

[Hialmar]

Vaporware strikes again.

Too bad they didn't at least give the beta version source code away. It sounded cool.
I need to put some students on a project like that.

Honestly without this I don't understand why someone wants to pay for DnD Insider...

[coach]

4e

round 1 4e - Fighter... I use the encounter power "kick in the nuts"... *rolls dice*, oh a hit the enemy takes x damage and is prone and dazed
round 2 4e - Fighter... I use the utility power "war face"... I get to use a healing surge as my fighter lets loose a killer scream!, i follow this up with a daily power "blah blah", etc etc.

So all classes now feel like they have more to do in combat, making it a lot more tactical for all involved. Now on the issue of balance it means that spell casting has been scaled back. Casters no longer have supplement after supplement of spells they can choose from and memorise, they are limited to the same number of choices more or less as the other classes. No more save or die spells. Spells other than fireball are now worth taking. Spells that are used out of combat are now rituals and take 10 mins to cast as well as a component cost.

Did i mention teamwork is essential?. No one pc can do it all. The healer/leader needs to keep the party on their feet (the enemies are tough, and those criticals hurt!), the controller needs to stop the party from being swamped all at once, the striker needs to
do the damage when and where it counts (pick those targets wisely), and the defenders need to stand tough in the middle of it all.

Each role (or variation) can be filled by differing classes/types (divine, arcane, primal, martial etc etc) so it you want a spellcasting defender, there is a class for it. IF you want a spellcasting striker - very possible, if you want a primal healer ok.

ITs good.

LOL, the above quote supporting 4e could be used by myself for reasons why I don't like it

to each his own!!

seems like empower the fighter with choices, nerf the wizard with the lack thereof and everything is solved

balance is overrated, you can't perfectly balance spellcasting and melee fighting, but a good DM that doesnt allow rules lawyering can combat some of the lack of class balance

and the terminology was a turnoff: artillery, skirmisher, controller, soldier, leader (makes me feel like i'm playting the aforementioned war game or MMO)

also, simplicity is overrated, gimme a tactical european and pacific theater wargame that takes months to finish anyday over axis and allies.

we "grognards" don't like oversimplification of our rules because we already "know" them, we have 3 kids and a mortgage and have no time to learn the 4th new set of such

my two favorite things to collect were Forgotten Realms products and Dragon Magazines, so my hobby has been jerked out from under me LOL

so in essence, WotC has 'forced' me into Pathfinder, not necessarily a bad thing

and lastly, as to the original post ... my friend owns a brick and mortar RPG store and his conversations with me have emphasized that he is definitely worried about the future as his comparative DnD gaming sales (first 24 months of 3e vs first 24 months of 4e) are not even one-third of what they were.

now giving the bad economy some of the fault, i'd also think that catering to the tween/teen MMO crowd will at least a little bit lower the amount of disposable income able to be thrown at the hobby

[Veilan]

and lastly, as to the original post ... my friend owns a brick and mortar RPG store and his conversations with me have emphasized that he is definitely worried about the future as his comparative DnD gaming sales (first 24 months of 3e vs first 24 months of 4e) are not even one-third of what they were.

now giving the bad economy some of the fault, i'd also think that catering to the tween/teen MMO crowd will at least a little bit lower the amount of disposable income able to be thrown at the hobby

Your friend thinks:
Author -> Publisher -> Distributor -> Retailer -> Consumer

Reality is:
Author -> electronic market -> Consumer

I don't think he's in for that much of a longer ride, though he's certainly better off than a bookstore, since RPG shops have a rather loyal customer base that want shops to socialise, chat and check out.

[Castano]

anything that simplies PnP DnD is welcome..it's collected so many barnacles over the years, it became near impossible to run for many of us. I actually got back into DnD when Baldur's Gate and its progeny came out because the game engine (imperfectly) took care of all the rolls/skills/crap. I prefer a game where teh focus is on a storyline wher ethere is fighting etc tied to teh storyline and we don't have to pull out slide rules, abacus and the odd mainframe computer to calculate out what happens. just my two-cents.