Crime & Punishment, Elf-style.

[Bohemond]

Anyone know anything about this subject? Do they have elven prisons? Forced labor?

[hollyfant]

Canon material usually paints Elves as perfect, nigh-angelic creatures. So sources detailing Law & Order are rare and sketchy. A lot of emphasis is put on Elven love of personal freedom though, so I imagine a prison would only be used to detain people before a trial much like in the real middle ages.

[Blindhamsterman]

from my understanding, usually elves attempt to help those that commited a crime, rehabilitate so to speak...
however it also seems those that perform especially bad acts are often exiled (best reference being Jon Irenicus from Baldur's Gate)
Only example of elves in Prison I can think of off hand would be the Fey'ri which were imprissoned, but lets face it, they only barely count as elves by that point.
I can't imagine hangings, maybe a quick death via a sword...

[hollyfant]

They also seem to have a thing for curses. And why chop off a hand, when you can curse someone with clumsiness?

[Brokenbone]

Do you want some REALLY old material, which may or may not count as canon? There's passing reference to it being sorta tough to keep elves prisoners for long, in ye old "Complete Book of Elves", of AD&D vintage. I recall no shortage of players in ALFA's NWN1 had this book as a touchstone for some odds and ends elven cultural stuff, including in largest part for anything and everything about elven lovey dovey "bonding", which hasn't been reproduced in 3.0 / 3.5, but wasn't overruled in any sense as non-canon (retconned?) that I know of either.

PDFs of these old sourcebooks are everywhere. A godawful text only version can be found via google, here's an example: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/434001/the- ... ves%5B1%5D

Check out this quote just as a "wilt and die" kind of thing to do with imprisonment...it comes up near the end of the bonding section (can't say the page as it was a rotten txt file version):

"This bond applies, to a lesser extent, to the earth itself. If confined or kept away from the land or the company of other elves for too long a time, an elf can die from grief and loneliness. Even if being held prisoner near nature or with other elves, the elf can lose hope and—without sustaining physical injury—force his or her own death. This is done only in the darkest of times, and only when there is no hope left at all to the elf.

This ability to choose death over life is one that defeats captors and would-be torturers, for they are unable to maintain their grip on their victim for long should the elf choose this method of "escape."

(anyhow, you can google strings like "this bond applies, to a lesser extent" and find crappy old angelfire pages about elves as well)

So, if this AD&D 2nd edition stuff, which applied to campaign worlds from Al Qadim to Spelljammer to Forgotten Realms to Ravenloft, is taken as still good, it means that if elves get really, really mopey, they can suicide by an act of will alone. Probably means a "life sentence" isn't always going to be 1000 yrs!

[Bohemond]

Hmm, thanks all.
It seems there's little concept of a middle ground on this subject - and little concept of a middle ground in elven behaviour in general - that their behaviour is always either almost perfect, or so bad that something horrific is proscribed.

Not much of a grey area.

In terms of an elf who had commited a serious crime, perhaps under mitigating circumstances, but clearly wasn't so evil as to warrant execution, a horrible curse, etc:

I suppose rehabilitation would be in order - a forced seclusion ( tree arrest), might be severe enough if their 'bond' with the earth was disrupted somewhat.

[Blindhamsterman]

My preference is exile, elves live so long that they get lots of time to think about what they had done.

[HATEFACE]

Pfft exile. How cliche. I've yet to see a decent curse on ALFA.

[Rotku]

Is that a challenge?

[HATEFACE]

Sure why not. Next character I make will be an elf. He will come with a curse, and YOU get name exactly what it is, and what it does.

[Vendrin]

Elves choosing exile is one of the stupidest things they can ever do. It's bit them in the ass so many times, yet they still do it.

[hollyfant]

They're emo like that.

[HATEFACE]

Elves choosing exile is one of the stupidest things they can ever do. It's bit them in the ass so many times, yet they still do it.

blame lotr

[oldgrayrogue]

I recall somewhere along the line hearing of something called "the Dagger of Justice" which is a punishment applied by elves against another elf who has committed a grave crime against his people. It can only be administered by a Priest of Corellon I believe. The criminal's face is marked somehow with the sign of a dagger (Brand? Tattoo? Scar?) which marks the elf as a betrayer to his race. He who wears the mark of the dagger is henceforth considered a non-elf by all other elves and a betrayer and criminal of the worst sort. A total outcast among elves. I think its canon and will have a look for the source. There's your next PC PD =)

[PensivesWetness]

Sure why not. Next character I make will be an elf. He will come with a curse, and YOU get name exactly what it is, and what it does.

Pink hair, chaotic events always around, can't speak well at all (but speaks something else, really, really good)... doesn't require the chalice of fury to be the cause but...

*giggles* that's as good a curse as you can get