Indirect: is CvC?

[danielmn]

Right. Back to the query, forgetting the party bs, my own opinion would be that one is not CVC culpable if ones pc chooses not to help another pc in a combat situation wherein other PC is sure to die without your help. That is part of the danger of taking on something that one's pc can't handle alone, you never know when the other pc/pcs will back out and leave ones pc to fend for themselves.

[fluffmonster]

The question is really about whether its okay to drag hostile mobs over to vulnerable PCs. That's what the OP is asking. I say treat it like CvC not because its just like CvC, but rather because its good to have the DMs aware of it and having the chance to intervene if they wish. Maybe they'll say thanks for letting us know, maybe they'll say don't do it, I don't know, but they should have the option to say somethin. Best to have their opinion established before the butthurt rather than after.

[Brokenbone]

Isn't that simply AI abuse, if it was done DMless? There's a variety of ways to make mobs move the ways you want, and also ways to stop them from moving (get 'em where you want, then POOF, invisible, run away, hope none have very good listen). Also if one's exploiting their knowledge of how long a despawn cycle is (again, fully OOC), doing a "drag" of AI critters to someplace where you're banking on a path being crossed before there's a despawn, sounds pretty damn fishy, doesn't it? Again though, this is all assuming DMless AI management.

If your PC hires a local ogre (AKA the DM) to watch a road for a struggling, weighed down redheaded dwarf for 50 gold and a tasty orphan, different story. Again, the hiring RP (playing with fire, chance of getting burned if some social skills or tribute offers go askew) I guess some'd argue is a form of CvC, but the DM involvement puts a pretty legitimate stamp on it. Alternately I guess there's charm person (for humanoids) or charm monster (for bigger stuff like that ogre) available to folks who feel a little weak on their negotiations skills.

Net though, one situation sounds like it'd run a chance of an AI abuse complaint, motivations happen to be "kill someone else", but if you're exploiting a game weakness to achieve a goal, IC or not, you still can get in deep trouble.

[oldgrayrogue]

IMO intentionally leading another PC into a hostile situation under false pretenses in the hope that they are killed by mobs is tantamount to premeditated CvC. I would hope that anyone who plans this would only do so with DM involvement. In this situation you are basically setting a trap for the other PC based on a bluff. A DM would likely require you to roll a bluff check against the other PC who can then roll a save etc before following you into the ogre lair to discover your motives. Moreover, if RP is the goal then DM involvement will lead to a much richer RP experience in the above scenario.

As to riot's question, I think this might qualify as AI abuse. For example, if you attack a gnoll and he chases you down the road to the hapless guy carrying the crate why would he let you escape and attack the guy with the crate? Chances are he wouldn't but for the AI coding. The gnoll would chase down the person that attacked him first I would think. Again, I think this kind of thing is best done with a DM for a lot of reasons. For example, the guy carrying the crate who sees a gnoll charging with sword drawn could simply drop the crate quickly and defend. But due to game mechanics, you have to open your inventory, select the crate, click drop and then wait for the toon to drop it before you can draw your blade and defend or even just turn and run, not to mention potential lag issues. By that time, unless you click real fast, the charging gnoll has probably scored 2 hits on you. Again I think this is sort of a potential AI abuse, because it potentially exploits the limitations of the game UI to set a trap for the other PC.

My rule of thumb for CvC is simple, err on the side of assuming something is CvC if you are not sure, and take appropriate precautions. Less chance of an issue, dispute, or rule violation this way.

[Brokenbone]

*tosses a ruby into Chou's tomb, invites hapless, non-local PCs to go fetch*

[Castano]

If your goal is to kill a PC it is CvC. It doesn't matter how you do it (leading the spawn to them, leading them to the spawn). Please be an adult and tell the DMs on the server before you attempt it.

As to not helping a downed party member, that's not CvC in and of itself (unless it was coupled with the let's go to the Ogre Caves scenario where you lead them to their end). For example you could be partied w/ a PC you IC hate due to circumstances, be assualted by monsters, and then simply walk away leaving them wounded).