NON-ECL Drow and Duergar, oh my!

[Ebonith]

Yes, you heard correctly. What I am proposing would be an option for drow and duergar players, especially favorable for an environ where those races are dominant (i.e. Skullport, North Underdark, etc.). Essentially, until ECL is figured out, you can give players the option of playing these races with no ECL. When ECL is figured out, they can choose to play the ECL drow with all the ubergoodness or stick with the non-ECL drow that are severely nerfed, but no ECL. Scripting this is fairly easy as I have seen custom races on most PW servers. Here is an example of a non-ECL drow:

Choose One: +2 CHA or +2 INT
-2 CON
Darkvision
+2 Spot and Move Silently
Light Sensitivity
+2 vs. Enchantment Spells
+2 WILL vs. Spells/Spell-like effects

Done. No darkness, light, resistance or any other wonkiness. Thoughts?

[Rotku]

Was suggested a while back and heavily attacked by some drow fanatics.

I couldn't care less either way.

[zicada]

Was suggested a while back and heavily attacked by some drow fanatics.

I couldn't care less either way.

me neither. Its a choice, if anything its moar win, since both parts of the fence get their say. And you can't come complain later cause you chose whatever you chose. I approve.

[Vintenar]

To keep it in line with lore perhaps a more RP reason could be suggested.

For example, I am not sure if the highborn drow feat is available in NWN2 but it implies that different dark elves are born with different natural abilities based on their breeding etc. Though not specified in cannon, it could be introduced that there are lowborn drow, who do not have such enhanced abilities as even most normal drow and thus do not have a level adjustment.

*dodges tomatoes*

[zicada]

To keep it in line with lore perhaps a more RP reason could be suggested.

For example, I am not sure if the highborn drow feat is available in NWN2 but it implies that different dark elves are born with different natural abilities based on their breeding etc. Though not specified in cannon, it could be introduced that there are lowborn drow, who do not have such enhanced abilities as even most normal drow and thus do not have a level adjustment.

*dodges tomatoes*

Decent idea.

[Thorin]

Well, I may not be in on alfa's current administration but...

Drow require a dm who knows the lore, and a setting. Currently, Skullport would be the only real place for Drow. With a proper application and process to ensure drow players are coherent, responsible and non PG prone, playing them shouldnt be a problem.

As for their abilities, why not allow ECLS? Limit the playerbase so not everyone can do it, and require an application process to handle people (eg non noobs) to play them.

It works fine on the other side of the pond (Exodus). We've had no problems with ECLs. It could work here, too.

[Vintenar]

As for their abilities, why not allow ECLS? Limit the playerbase so not everyone can do it, and require an application process to handle people (eg non noobs) to play them.

That is decent reasoning. To play devil's advocate however, could that not also lead to places like Skullport to be rather scarce of players, since most races who would be there would have an ECL+ and thus all players on the server would be "limited".

[Faeryl]

I think Eb's idea is fine. As for protests from drow fanatics *shrugs*. I would think they would rather make a few sacrifices than not have the option to play the race. I know I've always felt that way myself.

I don't like the idea of requiring an application to play a drow (or any other ECL race). People have already applied to play in ALFA, they should have the ability to do so without having to go through another layer of red tape.

[zicada]

I don't like the idea of requiring an application to play a drow (or any other ECL race). People have already applied to play in ALFA, they should have the ability to do so without having to go through another layer of red tape.

+1

[hollyfant]

People have already applied to play in ALFA, they should have the ability to do so without having to go through another layer of red tape.

Agreed, yet we already have this for a base class (Favoured Soul).

[Brokenbone]

I gather the suggestion in the original post is about a temporary solution, "until ECL is figured out."

I thought ECL already was figured out. I.e., using the vanilla NWN2 system, no ALFA specific tweaks to bring it closer to... well, either plain 3.5, Savage Species, Lesser Races, other wacko variants. In the absence of alternate agreement type of thing, just going with the out of the box solution.

This is what applies to current ECL PCs in TSM, no? That is, there's at least planetouched around, I'm sure there was at least one Duergar from early on (Holy Rage's, presumably retired).

Net, I am not clear there was still a "problem" to work around.

[zicada]

I gather the suggestion in the original post is about a temporary solution, "until ECL is figured out."

I thought ECL already was figured out. I.e., using the vanilla NWN2 system, no ALFA specific tweaks to bring it closer to... well, either plain 3.5, Savage Species, Lesser Races, other wacko variants. In the absence of alternate agreement type of thing, just going with the out of the box solution.

This is what applies to current ECL PCs in TSM, no? That is, there's at least planetouched around, I'm sure there was at least one Duergar from early on (Holy Rage's, presumably retired).

Net, I am not clear there was still a "problem" to work around.

It's just about providing a choice. Either playing a regular ECL and wait to 3000 xp to level, or play a nerfed one that levels at 1000. Since it's apparently fairly trivial to put in, I see no problem with it.

[AcadiusLost]

The "until ECL is figured out" was likely a misunderstanding. We do in fact allow LA-race PCs to be played in ALFA, with their full racial abilities, at their canon level adjustment. Since ALFA is a world in which all PCs begin at 0 xp, (current NWN1 experiment in Sembia excepted), this means a very long time indeed with a single hit die (3,000 XP to a 2nd class level for LA+1, 6,000 XP to 2nd level for +2 drow-types, etc).

The question is whether we should be adding an option for "diminished versions" of these races, which would permanently and irreversibly trade the majority of their racial abilities for faster advancement in level, basically rendering them into darker-skinned versions of their surface brethren from a statistical standpoint. This seemed pretty unpopular with those who wanted to play level-adjusted PCs last time we went around with this sort of a recommendation, but perhaps opinions have changed on the matter in the meantime. This mostly becomes important for when Skullport is getting ready for Live, as it will likely be the first server suitable to support a playerbase rich in LA-race PCs.

[Ebonith]

I would love to give players the option to play non-ECL versions of some of the races that are mainstream in Skullport (i.e. drow, duergar, yuan-ti). This will encourage the playing of those races for the RP aspect of the game and not the powergaming side of it. The benefits of the ECL races are great, but some players would much rather advance their characters in level than have the racial powers integral to ECL races.

In essence, I say we support both versions of the race and leave it to the player to decide which version he or she wants to play. I would be glad to post non-ECL version of the races I would particularly like to see in non-ECL versions from a completely selfish Skullport standpoint...

Good comments all. Other thoughts?

[Ebonith]

LORE

I would glad to address lore from my standpoint:

- Drow - As is canon for drow, when drow are away from their irradiated adamantium for an extended amount of time, they begin to loose their innate abilities. Whether this means that the non-ECL drow PC spent long periods on the surface or stayed in an area of the Underdark that was not rich in the radiation that provided for that magic, either way is fine. The explanation is simple: non-ECL have been away from their environ long enough to have their innate resistances and spell-like abilities dissipate. Those with ECL have retained theirs due to proximity to the irradiated material. Those that have stayed extended amount of time in Skullport for example? Yeah, they may have lost their innate magic.

- Yuan-Ti - Easy...there are so many different breeds of Yuan-Ti, what's one more?

- Duergar - I will need to do more research.