Subdual System

dob85y · Post by **dob85y** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:20 pm

Is there any information/guidelines/warnings about the subdual system we need to know?

Does attacking a creature that is trying to kill you with subdual system grant attacks of opportunity

Do you take normal damage once you are subdued

Can the subdual system be expanded to force characters to eat/sleep at least once a day?

Any information would be appreciated

Creslyn · Post by **Creslyn** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:38 pm

What you need to do: simply toggle it on or off by using the designated button in the pc tools window, listed under miscellaneous (or using the supplied item in inventory or from a quickslot).

How it works: when you strike someone with subdual damage activated, it will deal nonlethal damage (NLD) instead of lethal damage. The amount of NLD is tracked, and when the total NLD is equal to the targets current (not maximum) HP they are staggered. When it is greater than the targets current HP, they are subdued (fall over helpless). NLD recovers over time, currently at a rate of 1hp worth of NLD every 5 rounds. This can be accelerated with healing or regeneration spells, which recover the same amount of NLD as lethal damage is healed. Resting will completely recover all NLD taken.

Things to be aware of:

1) any kind of bonus damage on your weapon aside from +enchantment will be dealt as lethal damage, not NLD. So if you are wielding a +2 longsword with something like +1d6 fire damage, or +3 bludgeoning damage, then you'll do 1d8 + 2 NLD, and either +1d6 fire or +3 bludgeoning lethal damage.

2) critical hits can't be tracked, so the possibility remains to do lethal damage even with subdual activated. If you have a very high strength and are using a two handed weapon, be aware that you may still deal significant lethal damage if you score a critical hit on your target.

3) you can use combat modes just fine in subdual mode, including power attack and improved power attack. Do be aware of critical hits though, as stated in 2). Having either mode activated will greatly increase the amount of lethal damage inflicted if you score a critical hit, especially using a weapon two handed.

4) you can only deal NLD with a melee weapon. It will not work with ranged weapons

dob85y · Post by **dob85y** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:05 am

Something i noticed while using NLD. When i checked the log, after a combat (where i subsequently killed the target) was that my AB was reduced by one. Is this intentional? I will have to do more testing tonight, but every attack i made was at +4 rather than +5.

Other than that it works a treat, i pummeled that bird good, and before i accidently killed it it did fall to the ground.

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:59 am

So, if the subdual mode can be activated from the PC tools... what is the subdual toggle item for, apart from taking a slot and weighing 0.3lbs?

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:34 pm

Veilan wrote:So, if the subdual mode can be activated from the PC tools... what is the subdual toggle item for, apart from taking a slot and weighing 0.3lbs?

Subdual toggle is a temporary measure that is quickslottable, and serves as a way to activate the mode quickly when necessary until such time as we have an automatically-granted activatable feat to accomplish the same end.

dob85y · Post by **dob85y** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:38 am

Just mirroring my post about the monk unarmed attack weapon focus bug, it dont work with subdual.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:33 pm

Creslyn tried just about every way imaginable to get subdual to work mechanistically with barehanded attacks, but it required equipping of a hidden creature-type weapon to apply the subdual damage. Since this isn't technically an unarmed fist attack, it doesn't benefit from the Focus feat.

It may be possible in a later patch to check for Unarmed focus feats, and use them to add temporary creature weapon feats while subdual is active, but for now, it's a known issue, which is an acceptable limitation IMHO, as it works correctly for 99% of PCs.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:18 pm

AcadiusLost wrote:Creslyn tried just about every way imaginable to get subdual to work mechanistically with barehanded attacks, but it required equipping of a hidden creature-type weapon to apply the subdual damage. Since this isn't technically an unarmed fist attack, it doesn't benefit from the Focus feat.

It may be possible in a later patch to check for Unarmed focus feats, and use them to add temporary creature weapon feats while subdual is active, but for now, it's a known issue, which is an acceptable limitation IMHO, as it works correctly for 99% of PCs.

Heh, could you create a hidden creature focus weapon that has a +1 bonus to hit that can only be equipped by somebody with the weaponfocus - unarmed feat?

dob85y · Post by **dob85y** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:08 am

Actually, i have to agree with you AL, as i said to Cres it works a treat, and looking at the metrics, its probably closer to 99.9 %, i just happend to be the 0.1% affected so i figgured id raise it, with the suggestion of changing the "weapon" from a creature bludgeon to a npc unarmed attack, if this is at all possible?

Otherwise a great addition.

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:04 pm

Wait subdual works on monsters as well as PCs?

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:13 pm

Yep, you can pummel them down to Subdued, then keep them in that state pretty much indefinitely if you give them an extra knock now and then to keep them down. Most even loop the knocked-down animation. Normal use would be to subdue an NPC/creature, then leave before it recovers. However, one could also switch back to lethal damage and take advantage of the hideous dex penalty being helpless/prone applies. (Didn't script coup de grace, though.)