Player shortage

[oldgrayrogue]

I don't think a special recommendation system is needed, just a more streamlined and user friendly application and "getting started" procedure, which I believe is in the works. IMO a lot can be revealed in a player application about a player, both as to their potential IC and OOC conduct. I would rather have us do the vetting up front than IG as enforcement after the fact. Nothing prevents current members from recommending new players now and sending a PM vouching for them. I have done this myself more than once. I am sure the application reviewers take these recommendations into account.

I do agree with the other posters that DM coverage is the #1 thing that draws new players and keeps present players playing. Recent experience on TSM is a testament to this I think. I also agree that once a player is accepted to membership in the community much more trust should be extended to them than is currently the case.

[Demson]

Back to the original topic, the distribution of the information an applicant need to know is pretty poor. It is one of the main things I intend to change during my PA term. It's a pretty gigantic task however... 6-7 years of tradition and developments are hard to boil down into one single resource for applicants. With the new site we'll be able to do this, right now we will have to do with what we have.

As for the influx of players to ALFA, I can tell you that we have a steady amount of people coming into ALFA. The main issue right now is not getting people in, it is retaining them and making sure they feel inclined to return should they leave.

[Zelknolf]

For what it's worth, ewayneself has transitioned to DMing NWN2-ALFA (IIRC his laptop didn't have space for both NWN1 and NWN2 installs with all the haks/PWCs/etc. He's been pretty much the most consistent and active Live DM we've got for NWN2-ALFA since then, second only perhaps to Wynna.

Neither here nor there in terms of the player shortage, but in the interest of due recognition, I certainly wouldn't classify him as inactive or shirking DM duties. It would certainly be accurate to say that the DM listings for some of the servers should be revised to consider recent activity levels, though. In the past we've tended to leave people listed on teams in order to facilitate their return to "active duty" if things clear up, which isn't the best policy for players trying to get an idea of how many active DMs a server has.

Hey, I didn't say anyone was shirking duties -- I said that the number of accepted DMs relative to the number of DMs running plots wasn't a very good ratio. Ewayneself becoming a kickassed DM on NWN2 is awesome (and is why I said I'd ask him what he was doing if I saw him on SD); BB has twins (also meriting a "what're you doing?"); Aitana and Adalia seem to have been waylaid by RL; Alynnrobinso is (I think) on another project. Hell, I haven't even been very active in DMing, being that the 1.69-related crap burned me out pretty hard. My point is more that stuff happens, that it doesn't necessarily matter what that stuff is, and that because of said stuff I don't think accepting DM apps will solve our issues. I think removing some of our barriers to DMing and playing will.

[FanaticusIncendi]

Yup, we ARE getting another nwn2 server up ASAP.

Once we switch to the new website, we should hopefully also get quite a boost of people ending up on our page, through clever indexing with the searchengines. Drupal is excellent for this sort of thing.

Furthermore, we are doing PR things like nwcon, and working on a much better design approach to the webpage, aswell as the human-computer interfacing aspect,- which is actually pretty important.

Finally, we are going to bury things like Charter, Rules, Lawyering and other semicrazy game-b content away from prospective new players a bit. Because things like that, frankly, scare the sh*t out of people

Finally, we are playing around with the idea of maybe contacting similar nwn2 projects to look into the possibility of joining forces. This is obviously just an idea at this point, and the number of PWs that would be applicable is very small (hi Exodus )

None of this really helps NWN1. Yes, we may get a trickle of people here and there coming in via nwcon or whathaveyou, but I think we can safely say we're not going to have a huge influx of new players on our nwn1 servers. We all pretty much know each other and have been playing/DMing each other for a long time.

Allowing us to play and DM on the same server will enliven our world more directly and quickly than any PR attempts will. It will enhance our game. ATM, we are denied that due to the inflexibility of rules which were created in the heyday of large amounts of people on the servers every night, coming and going. The rules are outdated. Fix it.

The HDMs should (and do, I believe) know their DMs and maintain a watchful eye on DM/Player relations to ensure that no funny business is going on. People, the DMA or PA do not need to get involved in a lengthy disciplinary process if HDM Bob discovers that DM Joe is being unfair or crossing the line or whatever. It's as simple HDM Bob making a decision and DM Joe is outta there. Worried about HDM Bob going too easy on DM Joe because they're buddies? Well then you can take it to an AR. All of our current HDMs are good people with excellent judgment, IMO. Quit being so paranoid.

Now what about the hypothetical situation so feared by some that that Banite player might pull some funny business as a DM dealing with his Tormite rivals?

Well let's use ksiel for example (sorry ksiel not trying to pick on you, it's just a good hypothetical example!). Ksiel was recently a player on Sembia. His PC and my PC were not exactly overly pleased with each other at the end of their association. A mere 30 days later, he is now a DM on Sembia, where I still play. OH NOES!

Point is, he could still mess with my PC if he wanted in some sorta retaliation. He has plenty of IC knowledge and now he has meta knowledge. He could also decide he doesn't want to DM anymore, quit, then turn around and make another PC and use the meta knowledge he gained to again, mess with my PC. There are all sorts of possibilities for shenanigans!

How about instead of being paranoid and expecting the worst I just have a little faith that he probably won't do any of those things? How about I have a little faith that if any funny business does go on, I can tell Valdimir and he'll deal with it? How about if we want to take it another step, we just don't let ksiel DM the particular faction my PC plays in?

Oh and btw, as a player you have every right NOT to be DMd by someone!!! Worried DM Joe is going to pull some funny business? You don't have to play with him. Conversely, if DM Joe is uncomfortable DMing Player Pete, he doesn't have to DM him. Exercise your rights and quit being victims.

It would be a very simple thing to keep tabs on all these things in NWN1. I don't know how it would be in NWN2 but that's not what I'm speaking to here.

[ewayneself]

How about a baby step in that direction?

The 30-day waiting period between DMing and playing could be abolished, allowing people to switch from DM status to Player status very quickly. Then they could shift back to DM status at a later time.

This would be a good trial for the more radical idea of removing the Player/DM barrier on a single server entirely.

[HATEFACE]

desperate times and all that. Sure why the heck not. Go for it

[zicada]

Yup, we ARE getting another nwn2 server up ASAP.

Once we switch to the new website, we should hopefully also get quite a boost of people ending up on our page, through clever indexing with the searchengines. Drupal is excellent for this sort of thing.

Furthermore, we are doing PR things like nwcon, and working on a much better design approach to the webpage, aswell as the human-computer interfacing aspect,- which is actually pretty important.

Finally, we are going to bury things like Charter, Rules, Lawyering and other semicrazy game-b content away from prospective new players a bit. Because things like that, frankly, scare the sh*t out of people

Finally, we are playing around with the idea of maybe contacting similar nwn2 projects to look into the possibility of joining forces. This is obviously just an idea at this point, and the number of PWs that would be applicable is very small (hi Exodus )

None of this really helps NWN1. Yes, we may get a trickle of people here and there coming in via nwcon or whathaveyou, but I think we can safely say we're not going to have a huge influx of new players on our nwn1 servers. We all pretty much know each other and have been playing/DMing each other for a long time.

Allowing us to play and DM on the same server will enliven our world more directly and quickly than any PR attempts will. It will enhance our game. ATM, we are denied that due to the inflexibility of rules which were created in the heyday of large amounts of people on the servers every night, coming and going. The rules are outdated. Fix it.

The HDMs should (and do, I believe) know their DMs and maintain a watchful eye on DM/Player relations to ensure that no funny business is going on. People, the DMA or PA do not need to get involved in a lengthy disciplinary process if HDM Bob discovers that DM Joe is being unfair or crossing the line or whatever. It's as simple HDM Bob making a decision and DM Joe is outta there. Worried about HDM Bob going too easy on DM Joe because they're buddies? Well then you can take it to an AR. All of our current HDMs are good people with excellent judgment, IMO. Quit being so paranoid.

Now what about the hypothetical situation so feared by some that that Banite player might pull some funny business as a DM dealing with his Tormite rivals?

Well let's use ksiel for example (sorry ksiel not trying to pick on you, it's just a good hypothetical example!). Ksiel was recently a player on Sembia. His PC and my PC were not exactly overly pleased with each other at the end of their association. A mere 30 days later, he is now a DM on Sembia, where I still play. OH NOES!

Point is, he could still mess with my PC if he wanted in some sorta retaliation. He has plenty of IC knowledge and now he has meta knowledge. He could also decide he doesn't want to DM anymore, quit, then turn around and make another PC and use the meta knowledge he gained to again, mess with my PC. There are all sorts of possibilities for shenanigans!

How about instead of being paranoid and expecting the worst I just have a little faith that he probably won't do any of those things? How about I have a little faith that if any funny business does go on, I can tell Valdimir and he'll deal with it? How about if we want to take it another step, we just don't let ksiel DM the particular faction my PC plays in?

Oh and btw, as a player you have every right NOT to be DMd by someone!!! Worried DM Joe is going to pull some funny business? You don't have to play with him. Conversely, if DM Joe is uncomfortable DMing Player Pete, he doesn't have to DM him. Exercise your rights and quit being victims.

It would be a very simple thing to keep tabs on all these things in NWN1. I don't know how it would be in NWN2 but that's not what I'm speaking to here.

Yeah, Ive personally never been against letting people play and DM wherever they want. I was just posting some good news really to calm people down a bit.

Interesting this sudden focus on trust from you though FI, quite a 180 from anonymizing everything etc etc etc.

On the admin side of things, nwn1 seems to get more attention than anything else of late,- no need to wory.

The main reason there isnt a ton of nwn1 players is 1: theres nwn2, and 2: nwn1 is REALLY old.

[Nalo Jade]

The main reason there isnt a ton of nwn1 players is 1: theres nwn2, and 2: nwn1 is REALLY old.

Did you really taking a "jab" at a video game platform?

ROFL.

Yeah and you know what no body plays contra because they are busy playing rockband part ... but everyone still knows up, down, up, B, A, B, A, Select, Start...

*assumes a serious expression* Why would you feel the need to slight a game other people like?

There are plenty of people playing NWN1, we could have more players for NWN1 if we sought them out, but as we have already discussed ... right now we are pretty close to maxed out on DM coverage.

NWN2 seems to be the platform that "lacks" adequate DM coverage...is that mostly because members must choose Play or DM and cannot do both?

I guess we'll see what happens when BG goes live. For now it seems a lot of very reasonable things are being done to address almost all of the "loose ends"...

What about this DM/Player concept. It could be a slippery slope but I say go for it, just be sure we have people with "back bone" that can follow through with hanging those that will eventually violate that trust.

If we are being lead by folks that cannot "fire" their bestest buddy fantasy game friend, then we need to hire someone who can fire their friend.

@ F.I. I agree with you but, I also believe 100% that if we do it, someone will eventually "test the waters" ... I would just want to be sure that the waters were filled with sharks.

[Lusipher]

None of this really helps NWN1

That ship sailed. From all understanding you guys were put in charge of your own fate. NWN2 is the new platform and one that will bring in the players that ALFA seems to want. I would say take the NWN1 servers and break off from ALFA and do things your way if you wish to continue them. Im only passing through, though. So, its just a suggestion. There is a reason NWN1 was passed up by Cipher and AL has made it clear he doesnt really support it. Its the past. If you want to play in the past its your choice, but ALFA has moved on or should.

As for letting in new members on voucher. We did that. Open the gates for awhile and see how that goes. Its not like you cant close them again. You want players...well see how that works. It cant really be any worse than it is now.

Good luck folks. See you in the fall..maybe. Wotlk here I come.

[paazin]

Need I remind people that this very weekend we're having our NW Con events, where a number of people who are unfamiliar with ALFA can visit our trial servers and experience what ALFA is like?

If people are interested still in DMing for this event (you needn't be a ALFA DM, simply a regular member), please, either PM me or mention in the NWCon forum so we can schedule

[paazin]

None of this really helps NWN1

That ship sailed. From all understanding you guys were put in charge of your own fate. NWN2 is the new platform and one that will bring in the players that ALFA seems to want. I would say take the NWN1 servers and break off from ALFA and do things your way if you wish to continue them. Im only passing through, though. So, its just a suggestion. There is a reason NWN1 was passed up by Cipher and AL has made it clear he doesnt really support it. Its the past. If you want to play in the past its your choice, but ALFA has moved on or should.

As for letting in new members on voucher. We did that. Open the gates for awhile and see how that goes. Its not like you cant close them again. You want players...well see how that works. It cant really be any worse than it is now.

Good luck folks. See you in the fall..maybe. Wotlk here I come.

The ship as far from sailed, Lusipher. We still have the servers up, people still play and people still can be accepted to join. We have a rich history gathered from those servers and to just toss them aside as "old junk" is a mistake.

That said, the sad truth is we simply don't have enough staff to handle doing the work on that platform along with NWN2. So we work on making our ALFA NWN2 match what ALFA NWN1 was and still is, to this day.

[Veilan]

That said, the sad truth is we simply don't have enough staff to handle doing the work on that platform along with NWN2. So we work on making our ALFA NWN2 match what ALFA NWN1 was and still is, to this day.

Given the vast difference between the dimensions of magnitude of workload required to build in NWN 2 compared to NWN 1, that statement, no offense mate, seems to make little sense to me .

[paazin]

That said, the sad truth is we simply don't have enough staff to handle doing the work on that platform along with NWN2. So we work on making our ALFA NWN2 match what ALFA NWN1 was and still is, to this day.

Given the vast difference between the dimensions of magnitude of workload required to build in NWN 2 compared to NWN 1, that statement, no offense mate, seems to make little sense to me .

Hm, I thought it pretty clear - NWN 2 requires a good amount of work not only because the platform is more difficult to develop and build on but additionally because it had taken quite a number of years to get our NWN1 servers to the point where they are now; it seems to me quite clear why there is disproportionate attention given to NWN2.

[JaydeMoon]

Interesting this sudden focus on trust from you though FI, quite a 180 from anonymizing everything etc etc etc

Make sure you get that 'dig' in, Infra Admin, setting the example and leading the way

[AcadiusLost]

Seems to me this has gone well off-track, and has just (perhaps predictably) turned pretty negative. Locking it down for now.