FR Clerics and polytheism

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:12 am

Reading the thread on the priest system got me thinking about something.

Are FR clerics also *slightly* polytheistic? Would they grant occasional tithes to the churches of other deities aligned with theirs?

Would, for example, a group of Tormite priests offer the traditional tithe to Umberlee before they departed on a long sea voyage? Or would that be considered an affront to Torm?

Thoughts?

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:53 am

I think it depends on the relationship between the deities.

So... yes, if it makes sense. The deities have real and undeniable power, and you see how much money the catholic church can already make by a god that is arguably not as interested in direct intervention as FR deities.

I'm quite sure even a priest can tithe / pay respects to other deities, allied deities, etc.. Prime example: A priest of Angarradh is bound to pay respect to the three goddesses that compose her, and you wouldn't think he's not going to donate a 100gp to help out the construction of that new house of Corellon.

People tithe out of respect, fear, social convention and genuine affection. Priests are not immune to those things, but priests, of course, will consider the effect on their patron deity, the one they most depend on, foremost.

A more interesting question of course would be... can you be a priest of several churches?

mr duncan · Post by **mr duncan** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:13 am

This is sadly something a lot of folks miss.

Yeah, even your goody-goody tosses a piece of candy to Umberlee before getting on a boat. The clergy of Valkur might be the exception.

Malar, the bloody god of the hunt enjoys open worship in places like... Cormyr, where the noble classes love their hunting.

Auril too, celebrating midwinters is something almost everyone does. Much like with the gifts to Umberlee this is done by all alignments.

Even better is Beshaba. Weddings, parties, coronations, etc... NONE of them happen without leaving an empty chair open for beshaba or inviting her in... to forget this detail is to guarantee disaster and mayhem at your festivity. This goes a lot further than "occasionally getting on a boat" or a once-a-year festival. Beshaba is known, and invoked to keep in her good graces in almost every major event of most faerunian nations.

Most players come from a monotheistic real life and dont get this whole polytheistic culture thing. Its not "me and my god against the world" like most seem to take it as, your god is one of many. Oddly only a few of the evil gods demand monotheistic style exclusive devotion. (Bane demands you serve only him, while gods like Cyric and Lolth outright forbid any worship of any kind other than veneration of themselves)

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:10 pm

Agreed, and D&D in general has been guilty of not properly describing polytheism to its players. The Greco-Roman model of having a house god, local gods (even if they are from other cultures), and a greater pantheon of gods, all of whom get some sacrifices and prayers, seems curiously absent from play. Given the "could show up on your doorstep at any minute" nature of FR gods, weakling mortals should be paying their due respect to nearly all of them.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:43 pm

Veilan:

A more interesting question of course would be... can you be a priest of several churches?

This issue was the subject of what was perhaps my greatest tragic (meaning I lost) flame-war in the early days of ALFA, now affectionately known as the "Tower of Polytheistic Priests". Anyway, there HAVE been priests who are part of two churches and simultaneously worshipping multiple deities. However, the prime example I had back then during the battle for the Tower of Poly-Priests was a priestess of Hanali who was also a priestess of Sune at the same time (I forget which novel she was from, but from one of them). But .. of course .. with 4th edition we learn that Hanali was just Sune going "undercover" as an elf. Or something like that. There are other examples though - in 2nd edition materials for the drow there existed priests who served both Lolth and Vhaerun at the same time. The most famous is Shakti Hunzrin of Menzoberranzan, who was the primary antagonist for Liriel Baenrae throughout Elaine Cunningham's Starlight & Shadows series. In the end, Shakti chose Lolth over Vhaerun, but for quite awhile she served both, with each deity having its own plan and intentions for her. So, the short answer is that it happens in canon vis a vis the novels.

Of course, that does not mean it will happen in ALFA or even make sense for ALFA, but perhaps it will. Now ... where is Marklos? I still have the dagger he put into my back that finished the battle for that Tower. Oh Marky-Mark ...

oldgrayrogue · Post by **oldgrayrogue** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:38 pm

I would say paying homage or even praying to gods other than your patron deity in a polytheistic society is the norm, not the exception. The only caveat being that one would not honor a deity to which their own deity or pantheon is opposed, like elves praying to Gruumsh for example.

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:47 pm

Given the polytheistic nature of the Forgotten Realms I don't see why clerics can't pay tithes to other deities so long as the deity aligns and it makes sense for the cleric. They are, after all, human too.

Later in Sigil. . .

A sign reading, "Help! Undeath infestation needing cleansed. 5 copper commons per spirit exorcised." sticks prominantly out a trash pile, one of many, that litter the slimy streets of the hive ward. Beyond the sign rests a desk with an awning and a small kobold lazily fanning himself from the humid heat of the cage. As peak begins to rise in the city of doors, a line begins to form. Slowly yet surely people of all shapes and sizes line up in front of the desk and half-asleep kobold. Toward the back end of the line sits another far more alert kobold who, with quill and clipboard, ensures that no one unqualified enters the now long line. "Ho there Cutter! I know your itchin' to grasp your meaty claws on either the jink or chiv the spirits therein, but I'm here to tell whether your a canny blood or a cony berk. So let's shed the dark of it, yea? Let's get to it. Name?" The man in chainmail exuberantly responds, "Sir William Cathode of High priest St. Cuthbert!" "Great," replies the kobold as he adjusts his spectacles and jotts down something upon the parchment. The priest continues pridefully, "I serve the one true god! The only true deity of justice and peace! There is none high-" "Yeah yeah yeah," interrupts the kobold with an annoyed expression. "Ye priests need to tell a new one. I've heard this o'plenty, 'You serve the one true- yadda yadda yadda!' Get in line with the others."

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:46 pm

I think we're only really asking for trouble if we have clerics who are blessed by more than one deity. Would that cleric have to offend one or both to lose divine powers? Which one gets priority (if one can be given priority - if not, how does one give balance to life-consuming beings. I've yet to meet parents who do this well with multiple children, let alone handling imortal beings who can sneeze particularly forcefully and tear everything you love apart) and why. Where does a multiple-patroned character go when he or she dies? (a priestess of Sune and Hanali, as a cited example: does she go to Brightwater or Arvandor? Sure, they're bordering planes, but they have different people running them. Seems relevant.)

I'll grant that we have some (very hard to work with) examples of multiple-patroned characters and prestige classes in the associated literature (citations already made by Mikayla + the Triadic Knight PrC, my my knowing), but I'd take the stance that it's not really worth the hassle to do that with our PCs. Prolly great for books and stuff, but asking for trouble and drama in a PW.

That said, yeah, polytheism. Nothing says that a Tyrran can't offer to the Red Knight or ask for Malar's blessings when setting snares, but when there's a conflict, I'm guessing one would side with the patron's beliefs/teachings, and be expected to in the case of a divine spellcaster.

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:27 pm

The variability of RP is problematic. I say let the DMs decided what to spank and when or not at all.

hollyfant · Post by **hollyfant** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:10 pm

One of the problems of course, is that we're dealing with 200+ Gods (give or take). While I'm firmly in the "we're playing FR, read up on the FR lore already!"-camp, it can be a bit much for the casual player.

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:09 am

hollyfant wrote:One of the problems of course, is that we're dealing with 200+ Gods (give or take). While I'm firmly in the "we're playing FR, read up on the FR lore already!"-camp, it can be a bit much for the casual player.

One of the things I started when doing the BG priests was a section where you could learn more about their faith.