XP in multi-leveled party

[Mulu]

Oh, the xp system used here is not canon, that's for sure. It's a home rules system designed to... well I'm not entirely sure what's its actual intention is, other than to make leveling up as a new PC nearly impossible and ensure a level gap between those who rolled at live and those who came in later.

I suppose it's technically an anti-twinking system, with the caveat that you can still easily have your toon killed despite getting near zero xp for the encounters.

[Arkan Bladesinger]

Just to support Mikayla´s point my PC is lvl4, static quests were fixed when I started him up and I don´t think I´ve ever solo´d yet outside a few statics not involving combat if you don´t count wandering along the road from point A to B.

Haven´t played much lately, but Devon´s all for partying up as long as price and interests are matched, xp be damned.

[Kest]

It seems the intentions would be to discourage players from seeking combat at all, outside of questing and DMs. Unless you manage to trick the system, solo play carries a high to moderate risk for only minor reward. Group play carries moderate to minor risk for no reward.


Nothing really that dramatic Mulu, just the old stigma against spawns. When they become less predictable from wandering, maybe designers will loosen the xp leash.
vvvvv

[Mulu]

So we're back to ALFA as a tavern chat room....

Why not just shut down the server except for DM'ed events and hang out on IRC instead? Game C if you will. The Elf Only Inn.

[Hughes]

Was on for a couple hours this evening.

Was one other fella online. We didn't party up, it would have killed our xp.

Would have stayed online much, much longer IF I could have been in a great party (even just the two of us) exploring a dungeon, fighting, RPing, using all the little buttons on my interface and stuff and having a good time with other players. But the xp split wasn't enough to justify that so I killed a couple things on my own (got decent xp for that) and so did he I guess, and then we logged out.

Lame. Tomorrow night's my proper game night; I can play all night if I want, the wife won't bug me. Hope a DM's on... not much to do otherwise.

Please fix the party xp problem, staff. There's not a lot of reason for the Internet if all i'm going to do is run around a mod killing goblins by myself.

[Dorn]

I'll continue to support reversion to an equal share of the exp.

In several impromtu groups of levels 1-2 (maybe 3?) i've been in since live people have asked me/expressed and interest in avoiding certain places and getting off the main road to avoid higher level PCs. Reason is obvious regarding exp and also as they dont want to act OOC in not allowing some of them into the group face to face.

Hence it's activly preventing partying. Evidenced, regardless of what people 'think' is right and wrong and say so.

I dont think this is healthy.

Additionally people will solo more as stated above. And to say 'dont' is not a reaoable response as if they do not it becomes boring, continually earning 0 exp (ie not getting better at your art) for fighting and defeating things that can kill you with one blow, and people leave ALFA (worst case). Retention says we should change that.

The intent of this system is fair enough (althought i personally feel it's back to front), but the result is not fitting the intent. Hence i feel it should be re-examined by Lead.

[NickD]

How about a compromise?

Half the XP for an encounter divided equally, the other half broken up by level.

A simple example:
A party of 5: 1 * Lvl3, 3 * Lvl5, 1 * Lvl7.
Team up and kill a monster worth 100xp.

Current System:
- Lvl3 gets 12xp (3*4)
- Lvl5 gets 20xp each (5*4)
- Lvl7 gets 28xp (7*4)

Half and Half System:
- Lvl3 gets 16xp (10+3*2)
- Lvl5 gets 20xp each (10+5*2)
- Lvl7 gets 24xp (10+7*2)

Not a hugh difference in this example, but it does help close the gap.

Or a newbie and mentor situation:
A party of 2: Lvl1, Lvl5.
Team up and kill a monster worth 60xp.

Current System:
- Lvl1 gets 10xp (1*10)
- Lvl5 gets 50xp (5*10)

Half and Half System:
- Lvl1 gets 20xp (15+1*5)
- Lvl5 gets 40xp (15+5*5)

[AcadiusLost]

people have asked me/expressed and interest in avoiding certain places and getting off the main road to avoid higher level PCs. Reason is obvious regarding exp and also as they dont want to act OOC in not allowing some of them into the group face to face.

I'm still in a state of disbelief over this, though it's been mentioned from a number of people now. Still, is this ALFA? OOC avoid interacting with others in order to wring a few more combat XP out of the scripts? Changes are coming for the scripts, certainly, and likely sooner than later... but this is still fairly shocking to me. XP is just numbers on the character sheet... it's interaction with the other PCs (perhaps especially the established ones with some history to them) that sets adhoc play here apart from just clicking your way through some single-player mod. The XP division system scripted was a statistically "fair", CR-based one: I don't think anyone involved in it's drafting or testing imagined it would end up as an "obvious" justification for metagaming, avoiding other players, etc. It still blows my mind.

[Mozinwrath]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the scripts there just to add some flavor and maybe "jump start" new players into grouping? I personally think the idea of avoiding other people for xp reasons seems totally opposite of the intention of the scripts.

I've also seen people returning to the same spawns, killing em off and moving to the next set. My only suggestion (which is extreme) would be to use the classic "terrain style charts" to randomly create encounters (this would be more trouble than it was worth, having a level 1 PC running from a treant would cause a lotta gripes).

I still don't understand the need to watch the experience bar. If you actively group with people higher level than you, you have a much better life expectancy, more connections, and an overall more enjoyable experience. I've even taken to grouping with anyone, despite what I may or may not get out of it- Just like other players have done for me.

When you choose to keep yourself out of the fun for 4 exp points a kobold, you can't complain that it's going slowly. Your kinda making it slow. ( And DMs are attracted to larger groups, which in turn leads to the REAL experince encounters). I suppose without extreme measures, you can't be stopped from doing it, but you can't shoot yourself in the foot and get rights to complain about it.

Sorry if I sound a little hostile. I did the same sorta stuff too with some now dead guys. But I don't think it's fair to blame the system when people choose not to work WITH it.

[Kest]

Haven't seen much of that, but then again haven't logged in often recently. Mostly been showing up at request or DM events, which are apparently so uncommon that you cannot stop the entire server from showing up just for the novelty.

The crowds that gather, slow you down can be very irritating when your group is trying to act decisively and everyone wants to inject their opinion.

[Curmudgeon]

Mission

A Land Far Away (ALFA) is an online role-playing community founded in 2001. Our goal is to create a rich and rewarding D&D role-playing experience for our players using the Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 computer games and WotC's Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.

The main emphasis of ALFA is on role playing. Our servers are designed primarily to enhance the role playing experience of our members. When playing in ALFA, players are expected to assume the part of their characters, acting in the world as they would, and remain in-character at all times. Our Dungeon Masters create both ad hoc plots and preplanned campaigns to help bring the world alive for our players. This often results in the creation of fantastic stories about which our player bards sing.

Bolding mine.

[Mulu]

I'm still in a state of disbelief over this, though it's been mentioned from a number of people now. Still, is this ALFA? OOC avoid interacting with others in order to wring a few more combat XP out of the scripts?

Sounds like an act of desperation. The underlying problem is making folk desperate to get xp so they can get over the "one hit dead" hurdle.

The server is in no way balanced for 1st - 2nd level play. Of course people want to get out of those levels, you can't play the game at that level, other than to tavern chat.

[paazin]

So we're back to ALFA as a tavern chat room....

Why not just shut down the server except for DM'ed events and hang out on IRC instead? Game C if you will. The Elf Only Inn.

Enough, Mulu - if you don't have any actual ideas to contribute then please don't hit the 'Submit' button.

This discussion is open and the matter is something that the new DMA will be weighing in on; it's more than likely the current system will be tweaked.

[Hughes]

How about a compromise? Half the XP for an encounter divided equally, the other half broken up by level. A simple example: A party of 5: 1 * Lvl3, 3 * Lvl5, 1 * Lvl7. Team up and kill a monster worth 100xp... (blahblahblah)

That might be fine, I didn't bother to read it yet, but I think you're jumping the gun. First thing we need is a staff member to agree that the party xp system is killing group play, and pledge to change it. Then we can talk about how.

XP is just numbers on the character sheet... it's interaction with the other PCs (perhaps especially the established ones with some history to them) that sets adhoc play here apart from just clicking your way through some single-player mod.

I think for many players it's both, AL. I think lots of players want to have interaction while exploring and adventuring, and growing their character. I think all of those things are what people enjoy when they play NWN. The current party xp system permits PC interaction, but sacrifices adventure and character growth, I presume, in order to keep some kind of player-base level inflation under control. The result is that PC interaction is all that's left - something that can be had on an IRC MUD or MOO just as easily.

I personally think the idea of avoiding other people for xp reasons seems totally opposite of the intention of the scripts.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I still don't understand the need to watch the experience bar.

Oh please.

If you actively group with people higher level than you, you have a much better life expectancy, more connections, and an overall more enjoyable experience.

The central issue here is that two very fun things - character growth and playing with other people - are getting in the way of each other. Currently you get one or the other but not both. Tweak the party xp system a bit and poof, folks can get fun multiplayer enjoyment and character growth at the same time.

[NickD]

That might be fine, I didn't bother to read it yet, but I think you're jumping the gun. First thing we need is a staff member to agree that the party xp system is killing group play, and pledge to change it. Then we can talk about how.

Dropping it completely would be a mistake.

I have memories of playing on another PW world that used standard levelling many years ago. High level characters wanted my 1st level PC to join up with them so that they would get a lot more XP from kills and I levelled fast up by just staying at the back and watching them kill liches.

It was ridiculous. I much prefer the current system to that.