New player input

[AcadiusLost]

Sure, more people could just play together adhoc if we didn't intentionally trivialize the rewards to non-DMd activities. That's what makes the lack of DMs so crippling.

Through NWN1-ALFA times, most non-DM'd activities were almost totally unrewarded, and yet people still logged on and played ad-hoc. The automation of timed RPXP is a significant step forward in this respect, in my opinion. In fact, there are still people logging in and playing (and RPing) adhoc, and some of them are being DM'ed when logging on in this manner as well. If anything, I think the early "rush" on the available static quests at Rivermoot and High Hold put many players into a mode of expecting steady static questing rewards, leaving the "lull" after they exhausted the quests available less tolerable by comparison. I certainly don't believe TSM has fallen into a "campaign mode" play currently, though I do agree we haven't seen very good adhoc DM coverage recently. Hopefully recruitment to the DM team can help build a critical mass on that side, it's always tough to get the right number where you can synergize well without running into plot collisions and massive miscomunication amongst large DM teams.

I have noticed the player numbers dwindling recently, though. Hopefully it's a temporary lull.

[Mayhem]

Unrewarded for XP, or Unrewards for loot?

An un-dm'd band of adventurers will happily go seek out adventure in the caves, but not when there is nothing in it for them, even if only meeting their costs.

Plus there needs to be adventure in it. NWN1 servers were, generally speaking, huge! You could explore solidly for IRL days and not have seen half the server. As I understand it, the same is no longer true. Exterior size limits make for less area to explore and therefore less buffer between the safe areas and the utterly lethal "don't go there" areas...

That discourages non-DM'd adventuring, leaving "sit around the table in the tavern" role-playing, which can be interesting but if you only have a couple of hours for online gaming a week, soon loses its appeal.

[MorbidKate]

Well, you know ALFA has slipped a very long way when we can no longer find enough volunteers to DM on just ONE NWN2 server. Each effort to recruit more DMs has failed as those who offer either promptly quit or rarely if ever actually DM. The way I see it, we're left with two options:

1. Create and maintain a more welcoming environment for members who might want to try the DM client and do whatever it takes to help protect them from burnout. Beyond RL issues, the reasons for not DMing or quitting are very well known. If a server can keep at least a couple more active DMs it'd make a big difference.

2. Accept that ALFA will never again attract the numbers needed to stock servers with anything more than skeleton staff and greatly increase the repeatable static content... but that's a Catch-22.

As it stands now on TSM there is a great effort underway to fix statics and add new ones but the people doing them are mainly the only ones who might DM with any regularity and that hurts player retention. So what to do?

People can complain all they want but what's needed are less talkers and more doers because nothing will change without them. Not only do some people need to step up but others need to stop chewing on the butts of those who actually do stuff.

For my part, I'm building Felbarr to canon and plan to have repeatable statics there to keep players busy. The upper level should be done by end of weekend with more interiors... and lower levels to come. If anyone can help script Curm would love to hear from you.

Kate

[Mulu]

Through NWN1-ALFA times, most non-DM'd activities were almost totally unrewarded, and yet people still logged on and played ad-hoc.

Times have changed AL. This isn't 2004 anymore when for every member lost a new one was gained. You can't afford to chew through the playerbase a second time due lack of content, simple as that. And that's exactly what happened in ALFA NWN1, lots of people quit over lack of things to do. It was the number 1 reason cited to me by NWC'ers.

I'm playing on a server now that is about 1/10th the size of the average ALFA NWN1 server, but has about 10x the content of one. The players are having fun and thus logging in. With players logged in, RP happens. With RP happening, plots are created. A DM watching me RP with another player liked what we were doing and is going to facilitate the plot in sessions. That's how this game is played, it requires a critical mass of active players for anything to happen. Take away the incentive to log in, and nothing happens, and your project dies. I've seen it happen to many a project in the past. ALFA used to be too big to die only from a lack of content, but that simply isn't true anymore. Small projects require aggressive player retention, or they disappear. ALFA is a small project now.

MK, I know we lack resources, but the old ALFA attitude of "you don't need content" needs to be killed, burned, and buried. Who wants to build for a community that won't implement the statics you make?

[Demson]

Here is a thought:

static quests are DM sessions by proxy.

If we approach our game content thusly, the hooks and crannies of providing static content disappears. I'd much rather approach the matter as 'dynamic content' and use in-game NPC conversations and quests to faciliate live plots, and not replace them.

In my opinion, the current TSM start-up quests are too single-player. It's not all bad, but exploring the same farm for the same reason for each player is just a bit silly. The way it's presented now. It feels like it's supposed to be an unique happening, when obviously it is not.

What if you would change the focus from single player to a more dynamic quest system? Of course the farm would need to be patrolled and visited regurly. So each player visit becomes one patrol of many, instead of the unique response to a goblin sighting.

I've seen this done in other PW's and I can't phantom why ALFA wouldn't want to do this. IT's the great strength of a persistent environment: you don't have to be around all day for things to happen.

[Lusipher]

In my opinion, the current TSM start-up quests are too single-player.

You do those quests solo and see how fast you die. I wouldnt say their single player.

[AcadiusLost]

In my opinion, the current TSM start-up quests are too single-player. It's not all bad, but exploring the same farm for the same reason for each player is just a bit silly. The way it's presented now. It feels like it's supposed to be an unique happening, when obviously it is not.

I've always like scripted content which doesn't require "groundhog day" RP flexibility to try to accommodate in-character, and have always attempted to make the quests I've coded be more than one-off singleplayer enterprises. That said, the more dynamic and IC you go with quests, the harder it is to implement and debug. The more players you try to include in a single scripted quest, the more unpredictable things get to make sure the coding can handle their approach. When the constant drum is for quantity ASAP, it's hard to justify the long investment in quality.

Hopefully I can get some more builder-friendly documentation on setting up static quests in place, but at present you practically need your own hosting setup in order to do just basic quest testing (to say nothing of getting enough testers together to push the exception cases for party-based quests). I think mostly we want the same things, it's just a matter of how best to bring them to fruition.

[MorbidKate]

MK, I know we lack resources, but the old ALFA attitude of "you don't need content" needs to be killed, burned, and buried. Who wants to build for a community that won't implement the statics you make?

Sounds like your talking about something specific Mulu. Care to expand on that? I know the beta servers are very aware of the need for static content and I know TSM is going to great lengths to fix and incorporate new statics... sadly at the expense of DM time.

The main issue with TSM's statics was that many were badly designed (XP & GP) or buggy so rather than let the horse leave the barn like we did with NWN1 and lose control they were pulled or not implemented until they could be fixed. I fully agree with that move. The problem is that with TSM chronically understaffed it's taking too long and we’re losing players who are bored to tears. No DMs, far too few repeatable statics and fewer players around to even tavern RP.

Without more people willing to step up and talkers doing what they do best this PW will continue to slip. Once BG goes live I suspect a few people may be willing to DM on TSM while they play on BG but I suspect the bulk of the player base will empty out of TSM and move en masse to BG to explore the new content. Honestly, who wouldn't?

The only way out is if some of the talkers grab a shovel

Kate

[oldgrayrogue]

Here's my perspective as a player who first joined ALFA with TSM and NWN2.

I will always choose DMd content over more static content. The DM sessions I have been involved in on TSM have been stellar across the board. Unfortunately they have been few and far between. That is not a complaint, just a fact. The sense I get from the player base on the server right now (including myself) is there isn't much to do, and people are sort of getting tired of ad hoc RP without any story behind it. Some of us as players have tried to organize with DMs to schedule play times, and the DMs have responded. We need more of this for sure. Some players even attempted to have player/DMs permitted on a temporary and limited basis to allow for more contribution until a second server is up and running, but somehow I think that fell by the wayside.

Speaking only for myself, there is definately a lull in the story and activity on TSM at the moment. I don't think a lack of statics is to blame as much as other factors. First we are at the height of summer vacation time. I know many people I play with are on vacation, and that may go for DM's as well. Second I think a lot of players like myself who came in to TSM right at live have taken their characters to the limit of the static content available on the server, and hence have hit a bit of a break in the action.

The one suggestion I would make is that one or more overarching DM driven plots might breathe some life into the server. Such a plot line, that has continuity, tends to drive player RP IMO even when DM's are not on. For example the orc attacks of Rivermoot at the launch of TSM spawned much RP outside of the DMd events. You had players taking their characters on orc raids, standing guard duty at the Rivermoot bridge, scouting orc positions and making maps of them, etc etc. It was the most vibrant time on the server IMO. My PC missed the orc attack finale event, but I still found all of the RP around this plot very enjoyable as a player. It gave players something to do, and talk about and a reason to group up even when DMs were not around. Without such background plots, the players are left to drive their own stories, which is fine except if there is not a DM around to take the story forward you feel like you are spinning your wheels.

Anyway, just trying to offer some open and honest observations and one suggestion. Hope no one takes it as a criticism because it is not intended to be such.

~OGR

[LancasterX_2]

Builders having their work rejected outright, their statics disabled and the scripts removed. The average DM lasts, what, 3 - 4 weeks on TSM. 3 HDM's have quit already in 4 months live.

So what's really going on here? Who is forcing these people out?

[Teric neDhalir]

Who is forcing these people out?

Me.