DM XP

[Brokenbone]

DMs are only responsible for their own campaigns, not for "catching PCs up" from other XP sources which didn't result in gold gains. Or if they spend too much money when doing their adventuring, for that matter.

Example 1: if someone kills 1000xp worth of wild boars on their own, getting 0gp out of it, it's not up to a DM who meets them weeks later to "make up for that."

Example 2: if someone goes through a patrol static for its 50xp and 50gp reward, but manages to blow ten cure lights (-500gp) by deciding to see if their animal empathy is any good against a grizzly bear (and finding out it's not), it's also not the DM's job to try to find a way to make up on that point either. I take pains to point out "unforeseen costs" as opposed to "DM design" here, DMs might've thought this would be easy $$, but a bored player managed to get in the red anyhow.

...

Basically I do not think it's necessarily a good assumption to say "someone who comes to a DM poorer than you'd expect" has necessarily missed out on prior DM awards. Maybe their spellbook is jacked full of expensive spells, maybe they bought gear for minions / allies, maybe they just are really bad at resource management, drinking expensive potions when they should be using cheap scrolls, or making friends with healers or taking a nap more often. Maybe they also just got swindled by another PC, who is carrying around an award a prior DM had really thought would get split, but instead got hidden in an uneven loot share.

An assumption re: catchup doesn't work for me. FIGURING OUT whether there's maybe some catchup due though, works. I.e., communicate with former patron DMs, get a little history on "who this PC is to them", maybe you'd find out the DM had intended to reward more, or was shocked by how many CLWs got sucked back in a session, or that they know that all the PC's $ was spent on NPC hookers. *shrugs*

[JaydeMoon]

I dunno, my understanding is that the wealth gains are supposed to take into account consumables and the like and (when the system is working) have to player at around average wealth level most of the time. That's X% in items, Y% in gold, and Z% in consumables.

The wealth drops take into account that consumables get used.

It's the reason, after all, that if a player is below average wealth, a DM is encouraged to award then an additional percentage of wealth (up to 50% even!).

While it is not a DMs responsibility to back award such wealth, or perhaps even frowned on, if you came across a level 7 player with abysmal wealth and no magic gear, could you not take pity on the lad, assume he's been under rewarded (which, within the current ALFA atmosphere is not only possible, but probable) and at the end of your session when some goal is reached, award him some item of value even if you hadn't been DMing him personally long enough that he'd have earned that from you.

Of course you take into account things like consumables and the like, but a level X pc is expected to have about Y amount of wealth. If the PC doesn't have Y level of wealth (or at least something close to it), it's generally because he's been under rewarded, or overchallenged (and then still under rewarded).

Certainly we don't need to mandate correction, but it's within a DM's ability to make those calls, is it not?

(Of course, it might not be )

[ElCadaver]

I think the moderation of these things should be done IC, rather than a Dm saying ' Excuse me, can you just keep still so I can click on you? I need to take a few things off you in order to make you legal'.

The world is not fair, people have differences in how they handle money, and critical hits happen.

In the players mind, they've worked bloody hard for all they have. I think if a toon has too much of something, put them in an IC situation where the have to part with it or suffer the consequences. Why not bail them up with an old fashion roadside ambush (stand and deliver), or have the Fey trick them out of some of their loot? if you've got flashy toys, no doubt you'll attract the attention of jealous or greedy beings. No need to search for story lines now, everyone has a good time, and the players don't resent being brought back into line.

I remember in WD when I first started I ran everywhere. Instead of telling me, BOOM just tripped me over all the time, with 1hp damage. I annoyed the hell out of me (he probably enjoyed it), but I got the message (mostly >_<)

DMs have the power of a Virtual God online, yet some fall to the level of buerocracy? Random encounters don't have to be part of a plotline.

[JaydeMoon]

Doubly wrong thread... we're talking about giving MORE loot, not taking it away. Your points are all valid though.

In the meantime, I didn't mean to derail the thread. Please take it back on track.

Sorry.

[Rusty]

Thanks for the swift add, C.

If a PC is sitting at 3k gp below average and starts playing in your campaign and now doesn't have any interaction with any other DMs, is it not plausible to assume that the player likely has 3K gp 'banked' from other sessions?

Not remotely.

If players are outside of the average band, then awards should be gradually increased/decreased to bring them within it, as opposed to making individual huge increases/decreases. It's meant to be organic. It's only when individual wealth gets over the bar at the top that we should be looking at direct action.

[AlmightyTDawg]

Agreed. In an ideal world with genius mathematicians calculating in their heads, you could even come up with a "centering" factor system that aimed towards the middle at most points while realizing any one single award was not appropriate for getting it there. So the idea is that you don't reward other DMs' shortfalls so much as say "this person is below average now, so I'll bump my reward by say 25%." If no DM pays the PCs back for their shortfall, individual DM bumps will eventually even it out. If a DM does pay them back, they'll have to choose their own reward/factor based on where the PC is at the moment they reward.

Mathematically, what that means is that longer-term awards (say magic item at end of eight-session quest) has the best quantized potential to throw someone up high. What does a DM do when they go to give a huge plot reward and the PC is already over average? Every single award brings them farther, and farther away. It's a best-judgment sort of rule.

The point that Jayde brought up is interesting too in that consumables and other wealth-decreasers add an interesting conundrum for the DM. For example, some PCs may voluntarily choose the poor house - when selecting loot from a session, for example, my PC took the Evil-only swords and brought them to a temple to have them unmade. Thus, scratch takeaway from the session. Now a DM's got to decide whether he thinks that's done for RP fidelity (which he/she might reward) or for gamesmanship (hoping for a more "suitable" reward from the DM by playing nice). Does the DM award something else of comparable value, or fractional value?

All of these things are judgment calls, and different DMs will have different philosophies. If you throw a challenge at the party which forces use of consumables, I think some "consumable surcharge" award of extra gold - or better yet potions to replace lost ones - is quite in order. However, if you see the infamous "superman cocktail" that some PCs in NWN1 used to do - which is to quaff three to five boosters at the first sign of something near their CR - you might want to make them eat that for being pansies. Consumables have the potential to make challenges easier, and rewarding use of a "crutch" should generally be disfavored unless it's necessary.

[Teric neDhalir]

Can we sticky this, please. I keep losing it

[Brokenbone]

I liked the screenies of the then-draft tool thingie.

I wonder if just the first couple of background posts, plus some instruction in the DM tool/gui/thingie would be helpful as a small "tool and how to use it" sticky/announcement. The rest of this thread got into the XP:GP ratio, I think... which I thought also got blended into the tool to make some level of suggested award, i.e., "all other things being equal, this 100xp award normally translates into 125gp."