169, aka X3, is finally out

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:22 pm

Sure, Misty, but it is the effort that is lacking, not the other way around. It seems as though people are waiting - no expecting - someone else to do things for them. Do you honestly think there are people behind the scenes that are just sitting around waiting for orders? Let me make it clear; there aren't, for various reasons that are not worth the effort to debate.

The simple fact is, Brokenbone is the only active tech contributor for NWN1. Why? It's not my responsibility or anyone else's (as if we get paid to this) to do the work for you, which appears to be the gist of Mulu's complaint.

If you really want what 1.69 offers, you can make it happen. I am not standing in your way nor is DMA or any other admin. This is not a matter of policy that requires a tech or other ruling to facilitate. It just requires mundane, and very tedious, work which most people can do but are unwilling to do. Put it another way, we make progress with NWN2 not because of me (or Admin for that matter), but because of all the tremendously hardworking folks who put in the time, notably AcadiusLost on the technical side and the host of experienced and inexperienced builders we have on TSM, Moonsea, WHL, and Baldur's Gate.

If you guys want your platform to continue on, it's up to you to make that happen. If you're looking to point fingers, don't point it at anyone but yourself, because that is where the responsibility belongs in a volunteer project. There's really nothing more to be said.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:15 pm

ç i p h é r wrote:The simple fact is, Brokenbone is the only active tech contributor for NWN1. Why? It's not my responsibility or anyone else's (as if we get paid to this) to do the work for you, which appears to be the gist of Mulu's complaint.

Actually the gist of my complaint was pretty much the same as Misty's, that there should have been an announcement of the 1.69 beta and a need to download the beta and test NWN1 mods for compatibility issues, and have that effort, if any, coordinated. Or is the case now that any of us can do whatever we want with NWN1 mods, because if that's the case I have lots of changes I'd like to make to ALFA without informing the admin body.

It isn't that the mods didn't get worked on, it's that no one even thought to look into it. That's abandoning the platform, which a year ago was clearly stated would not happen.

If admin are no longer interested in supporting the platform, and that sure sounds to be the case, then that should be admitted and the platform should simply be yanked. Incompatibility with 1.69 has made the NWN1 mods all obsolete anyway.

kmj2587 · Post by **kmj2587** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:29 pm

Cipher: You were elected to serve as Technical Admin for the entire community. Yet you are in effect saying that those of us in NwN1 can expect no help from anyone except BB.

It is your responsibility as Tech Admin for both platforms to oversee updates to NwN1 just as much as to oversee progress on NwN2. Claiming it is not your responsibility because you do not get paid does not cut it. You took the responsibility when you ran for TA. You are basically abandoning the NwN1 platform. But wait, you still considered yourself involved enough to fire our other NwN1 tech over head models, leaving us with only BB.

The Tech Admin and the tech team have overseen previous updates, so Misty's expectation that it would be so this time is not irrational or out of the blue. Do not snap at her because her expectation was well-founded.

If you do not want anything to do with the NwN1 platform, fine, but why don't you say it loud and clear? That way those of us still involved with it will not make the mistake of thinking the TA represents us and the tech issues we still face.

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:31 pm

ç i p h é r wrote:The simple fact is, Brokenbone is the only active tech contributor for NWN1.

Who do you think gets reccomended when he gets a snag?
Who do you think is fielding questions when clients and haks rebel, or when a DM wants an NPC to do something exotic?
Who do you think finally kicked Moonshaes' horses into functionality just this week?
Or is working on Shadowdale's brutally-outdated NESS now?

BB's great - I love his stuff and he does good work and all of that jazz - but that doesn't mean he's the only one working; he's just the only one working for you. Doesn't mean we don't have tech-savvy people who could, and are indeed willing to, update haks for 1.69 other than BB.

Post by **ayergo** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:39 pm

Suggest a cooldown on all parties.

Bottom line is: Tech is stressed to breaking point. Any help making this included is appreciated and lets get on it rather than fight. We'd all like to see this in.

Request lock.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:33 pm

Well, and in fact what I'd rather see happen is rebuilds of ALFA NWN1 mods using all new content. Those mods look old man.

Vendrin · Post by **Vendrin** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:24 am

Mulu wrote:Well, and in fact what I'd rather see happen is rebuilds of ALFA NWN1 mods using all new content. Those mods look old man.

Then do it. Step up or shut the fuck up.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:22 am

Vendrin wrote:
Mulu wrote:Well, and in fact what I'd rather see happen is rebuilds of ALFA NWN1 mods using all new content. Those mods look old man.
Then do it. Step up or shut the f*sk up.

I've already said I would build an NWN1 mod for ALFA. My own come first, though.

Vendrin · Post by **Vendrin** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:56 am

Then don't post about others doing it, until you have, cause right now, all we get from you is bitching, and not a single thing of real help.

Electryc · Post by **Electryc** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:52 am

Lets get it straight folks Cipher is the one not in charge of anything related to NWN1, his focus 100% is NWN2. I am and I appolgize for not posting anything 1.69 related in the main forums. (Which usualy gets flamed by nwn2 users). We remaining users of NWN1 will have to fend for ourselves. If you still play NWN1 and want the added bonuses of the massive content of biowares final update, join the nwn1 tech team. Work together and get all of our current servers updated.

Brokenbone is the only one that has worked on the haks since your tenure? If you paid attention Cipher, which I assume you didnt, he is not the only one who has worked on the haks since your reign as NWN2 tech admininstator. I think this illustrates how out of touch you are with the current situation. Once again you failed to PM me to address this and throw those who have helped out the community with nwn1 updates under the bus. Thanks bud!

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:20 am

Vendrin wrote:Then don't post about others doing it, until you have, cause right now, all we get from you is bitching, and not a single thing of real help.

I think you're missing my point. 1.69 I think provides an opportunity for an MKII approach to ALFA NWN1, rather than just adding another layer to the existing builds. Sure, you can add some content, but redoing the maps with new tilesets means rebuilding, though I suppose you could erf the mod and import it over a plain vanilla redo of the maps.

And let's face, bitching frequently does help.

Vendrin · Post by **Vendrin** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:34 am

Mulu wrote:
Vendrin wrote:Then don't post about others doing it, until you have, cause right now, all we get from you is bitching, and not a single thing of real help.
I think you're missing my point. 1.69 I think provides an opportunity for an MKII approach to ALFA NWN1, rather than just adding another layer to the existing builds. Sure, you can add some content, but redoing the maps with new tilesets means rebuilding, though I suppose you could erf the mod and import it over a plain vanilla redo of the maps.

No, I'm not missing the point. It's great 1.69 might provide more oppurtunity for NWN1, but it will also provide a lot of work to the tech team, and here you are berating them for not moving fast enough to suit your desires. So if you want it done, go fucking do it, otherwise I reiterate, step up or shut the fuck up.

And let's face, bitching frequently does help.

Only when the person bitching is someone the community respects, and let's face it, someone who constantly berates the people who actually do stuff for doing it wrong, doesn't get much respect. I don't recall you ever dming, and when you do play, it rarely ends up with anything else but you saying how ALFA is doomed to fail, and the server sucks, and the dms and builders need to do more to suit your play style. Yes, I've agreed with you on some things, and I think some things are wrong with how things have been run, but you are just a jackass about it and one who hasn't done anything. I at least have contributed majorly in the past, and am at the very least still playing to help continue the ALFA story.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:40 am

Yes, your ALFA wang is bigger than mine.

I think it's funny you basically said the same thing to me that Rusty said to you a few months back, but I still think you're missing my point. I didn't expect our handful of contributors in NWN1 to be ready for 1.69 and have mods updated by today. I did expect someone to notice that 1.69 was coming and needed to be addressed. It was the total lack of awareness or minimal attempt at a plan that is surprising to me, and tells me the platform has been abandoned by admin. You can call that bitching, I call it pointing out an issue. A fairly major one.

As for wanting our NWN1 servers to be rebuilt with the gorgeous new tilesets available for NWN1, that isn't even pointing out an issue, it's pointing out an opportunity. Bioware rural is a bit hard on the eyes by today's standards, IMO.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:42 am

OK. Lets cool it.

NWN1 will still be supported. Yes, NWN1 needs folks to step up and help. I will do my part as PR to help you promote the NWN1 community still here and try and bring in new members and builders. We are currently trying to bring in players for both NWN1 and NWN2 using Neverwinter Connections. I encourage ALFA members to post over at NWC and ask for people to come over and help us out. As Mulu has shown there are a lot of people still playing NWN1 and Im sure we can tap into the player base through NWC and bring new folks here.

Everyone stop cussing at each other and bitching. NWN1 isnt going to be abandoned. This whole project right now is in a state of constant flux. We have a lot on our plates and resources are being mostly put into the new game. As Cipher has said people will need to step up. So, you guys do your part and PR Will do ours to help you out.

Lets all relax now. I know for a fact this isnt going to solve anything except to show new players we like to argue.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:05 am

I just can't imagine anyone doing a total rebuild of an existing NWN1 server at this stage of the game. I hear a LOT of people talk about doing stuff but very few actually step up. Sure a lot of people still play NWN1 though not many here these days and it appears 80% of our Live servers have been left by the Tech Admin to fend for themselves when every past TA has helped with the Bioware patches. That certainly doesn't help promote a sense of community.

Kate