The Way it Used to Be - Before Computer RPGs

[White Warlock]

Your description represents between 1/4 and 1/3 of the gaming population, so says the literary theory/ludology studies focusing on table top games.

Do research before generalizing, kthx.

Maybe you missed the part where i posted, "before computers." That meant before any portable computers, not before NWN. I.e., the 70's and early 80's.

And don't blow erroneous research claims in my face if you don't present them yourself, kthx.

Scrapping the system in its entirety is a grave mistake, as it can be difficult to tell what is vital until you actually come across a problem

Hello Paazin. Seems you didn't understand what i wrote. I didn't state to scrap the system, I said to review it from the naked position, and then see what is truly necessary, and what isn't.

Or, to put it another way, the present approach is to look at it right now, and start stripping off or repairing what isn't feasible. I recommended looking at it from a stripped down version, and then adding the parts back on that are necessary.

Oh, and i don't consider this project battle-hardened. From 3000+ to 200 members is not hardened, it's starved.

[Mayhem]

Your description represents between 1/4 and 1/3 of the gaming population, so says the literary theory/ludology studies focusing on table top games.

Do research before generalizing, kthx.

Maybe you missed the part where i posted, "before computers." That meant before any portable computers, not before NWN. I.e., the 70's and early 80's.

Perhaps I missed the point of your original claim. Where you posting it to say "this is what gamers want", in which case Zelk's rebuttal is appropriate - why base it on what gamers wanted in the 70s compared to what they want now?

Or was it just a nostalgic monologue?

[White Warlock]

Or was it just a nostalgic monologue?

• I wrote -- "The ideals presented by the founders of ALFA, to recreate Faerun in the hopes of providing a place where old roleplayers could get together and new roleplayers could learn how to play alongside the old, was put aside in favor of creating a government to manage the project."

It is hard sometimes to understand the intent of one of my posts, if it isn't read through to its entirety and instead responded to with sarcasm or tl;dr.

In this case, i was indicating that the founders of this project had a specific intent, which was the same intent as mine (the nostalgic description I provided was intended to demonstrate what we had in mind), but that unfortunately the ALFA Quake threw everything for a tizzy, and instead of continuing on with endeavoring to that initial intent, ALFA became obsessed with the governance structure, turning this project from a roleplay-medium project into an internet-government project.

[Kest]

Or, to put it another way, the present approach is to look at it right now, and start stripping off or repairing what isn't feasible. I recommended looking at it from a stripped down version, and then adding the parts back on that are necessary.

Reminds me of a quote from Antoine de Saint Exupéry.

[paazin]

Hello Paazin. Seems you didn't understand what i wrote. I didn't state to scrap the system, I said to review it from the naked position, and then see what is truly necessary, and what isn't.

Or, to put it another way, the present approach is to look at it right now, and start stripping off or repairing what isn't feasible. I recommended looking at it from a stripped down version, and then adding the parts back on that are necessary.

WW, we've already been doing this - but it isn't as trivial as you seem to say. Beyond the inertia in the system, the problem is you may not know something is quite important until it's actually needed.

Oh, and i don't consider this project battle-hardened. From 3000+ to 200 members is not hardened, it's starved.

Considering the drop in NWN1 use, it really only makes sense that we'd see a gradual decline. Disagree if you wish, but the organization has gone through a good deal, and has survived, unlike multitudes of other PWs out there.

[Mulu]

Realize too whitey that the original intent of spanning Faerun whole was, well, stupid. The better goal would be to make an rp focused campaign within Faerun.

[White Warlock]

Agreed Mulu.

And Paazin, you present reasoned rebuttals. Thank you both for your insight.

[Nalo Jade]

WW Take a longer look around this time.

Though you received some immediate negative responses...the bulk of the people in charge are reasonable people imbued with common sense.

They will not agree with you all the time or immediately, but I am gathering from your posts that you are intelligent enough to not expect such.

Ignore the riff raff, stick around for a couple more months and do another evaluation then. Things have changed, though the intial perception belies that statement.

I will agree that most of what ALFA has in place works and certainly there is room for trimming the fat, that will happen as time goes. Your method of evaluating the system does hold merit.

I challenge you to show us how it would work. I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking you to take the first steps in that process. Lead the way.

I know its hard to not be "defensive" on the boards, but please try and just ignore the idgits.

[Teric neDhalir]

Oh, and i don't consider this project battle-hardened. From 3000+ to 200 members is not hardened, it's starved.

Minor factual point. ALFA has never had 3000 active members simultaneously, despite any PR fluff you may have read. I mean can you imagine the fun we'd have on this forum?

[White Warlock]

Minor factual point. ALFA has never had 3000 active members simultaneously, despite any PR fluff you may have read. I mean can you imagine the fun we'd have on this forum?

Well Teric, when Wynna, others and I took turns managing the applications (Wynna performing the bulk of the work, i might add), an average of 5-7 new members were added to ALFA 'every day.' That's about 150-200 new members a month. Granted, we didn't have the best way to get them ingame so it wasn't readily obvious (just like it's not readily obvious we have 200 members at present), but many were logging in, and we were working on plans to bring more new members ingame (mentorship, etc). So yes, we had the membership.

[Mulu]

What ALFA really needs right now is a second NWN2 server, and no bureaucratic reorganization is going to make that happen. It also needs a better bleeding system*, but I digress.

What's interesting in your PnP to CRPG analysis is that you missed the obvious. People do move away from gaming over time no matter what you do. Most of the rp'ers I've met playing NWN no longer play the game, as far as I can tell, and the vast majority of them were never in ALFA. People migrate away from CRPG's for many of the same reasons they migrate from PnP games, their lives become incompatible with gaming, or they have their fun and want to move on to something else, they get bored, the novelty wears off, their spouse demands it, etc. The fact that you left PnP should tell you all you need to know about why people leave NWN.

Lots of people like to claim that ALFA membership is reduced for this reason or that reason; I've done it myself. But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the membership that has left did so silently, without giving a reason. The occasional dramatic departure is the exception, not the norm. Maybe they left because they got tired of most of their play time being DM'less and without content to pursue (my best guess at the #1 reason for PW's anyway, simple boredom), maybe they left because RL took them away, maybe they got mad at someone or something, maybe they didn't like reading the forums (though you don't have to quit playing to avoid that one), maybe they disliked the home rules and restrictions, etc. My point being, you like to bring up the drastic reduction in membership here over the last 5 years, but the fact is that reduction has occurred at every project and community over the last 5 years. Attrition is the norm.

I often post on the forums at NWC that I'll keep hosting and DM'ing games as long as I have players showing up. One day, I'll post a new campaign or try to fill needed slots in a current campaign, and won't get any applications, and that will be that. Five or six years from now, I doubt any of us will still be here. Lights out. All things must pass and all that. None of my old PnP play groups exist today either.

We won't see another CRPG with a DM client, insufficient ROI, so 10+ years from now it'll be either virtual tabletop or back to the basics for any future DM'ed gaming. It'll probably all be old timers too. I don't pursue the hobbies of my grandfathers, and I doubt my grandchildren will pursue mine. NWN gaming is a transient phenomenon. Enjoy it while it lasts.

* Bleeding out in ALFA NWN1 used to take a few minutes. It now takes a few seconds in ALFA NWN2. Srsly.