Why I do not think Jayde should be DMA

[Mikayla]

I do not have a question for Jayde, so the following is not really appropriate for posting in Jayde's Q&A thread. Accordingly, I am opening a seperate thread for this. This is not a post I wanted to make - I was hoping Jayde would take the opportunity I gave him in the Q&A thread to say he would refrain from cross DMing FI, but he refused. After a discussion in chat yesterday with a number of people who supported Jayde and did not see the problem that I see, I realized that those people were actually doing what I (and many others) have asked ALFAns to do for a long time: they were giving Jayde the benefit of the doubt. And rightly so.

However, I know more than they do about Jayde's thougts on integrity - I know because Jayde has told me his thoughts on integrity and demonstrated his ... well ... the following speaks for itself. Some may disregard it, some may take it to heart, some may write it off as more forum drama. In my case, I see what I think is a potential problem for ALFA so I am doing what I can to prevent it. So, I am going to have to explain why I do not trust Jayde specifically.


I do not trust Jayde because he is not sufficiently honest – and I say that he is not sufficiently honest because of his own words.

On February 21, one day before FI (as PA) made her first inquiry to me about my character’s statistics (the issue that would later become a huge dispute thread and result in Rusty quitting and lots of forum drama) Jayde wrote me a PM telling me that my PC’s statistics were now an issue. He told me what the stats were, he told me that it was Zelk that had found the problem, that the problem had now been moved away from a publically accessible forum into a private forum and that a PA investigation was likely to follow. He concluded his PM with the following paragraph:

Jayde:

Anyway, this post is not about judgment from me, nor am I trying to really get involved. I just want you to know what's up and how some of the numbers stack up so you can prepare yourself, in case of trouble in the near future. I appreciate if, at the moment, we act as if I haven't said anything to you because I haven't made FI aware that I'm doing this and it may hurt her relationship with the other Admin if they connect the dots and realize that I may be seeing things I shouldn't by virtue of being FI's partner and confidante.

(emphasis added)

This put me in a very awkward position – I did not ask for this “inside” information nor did I want it. Suddenly I had information I was not supposed to have and a request from Jayde not to tell anybody I had it. I replied to Jayde and I do not remember what I said, but I believe it was something to the effect of “Thanks, but why are you telling me this?” (I do not have my reply because while my Inbox is like 17 pages long my Sent Box is only 3 pages).

Jayde then replied with a suggestion that I lie to the PA and the DMs in an attempt to make myself look better.

Jayde:

From: JaydeMoon
To: Mikayla
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: Heading off trouble...
Is it possible that you would have seen the original post by Zelk (even if you didn't, do you have access to the NWN Tech forum?)

If so...

Upon seeing that post, you may have made the connection that it was your PC.

Upon making the connection you could have come to the realization that the stats are further outside the norm than you thought.

Then maybe you said as much to the Sembia DMs and asked them to look into it?

My reply was that I would not do that because “I am f**king honest”. I know that was my reply because Jayde quoted me in his next PM.

Jayde:

From: JaydeMoon
To: Mikayla
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: Heading off trouble...

Mikayla wrote:

And second, and this is the REAL problem - I am Ƥøا honest. Jesus christ Jayde, you really think a couple of stat points or weathering some heat from the Admin are worth my integrity? If Shey's stats are out of whack, so be it, let the powers that be deal with it as they may. It ain't worth losing my integrity over.

That's fine. I apologize if I presumed on your integrity.

My personal feelings on the matter are a defense mechanism to seeing so many individuals unfairly treated by the community at large. Too many people are treated without integrity or assumed to have none and so as a commodity in this community it is devalued.

I don't mean to get into a discussion about the importance of integrity, but I operate in a manner that upholds the spirit of this community if not the letter of its laws. If that means being a little shady in order to insure someone does not get treated unfairly, then I'm willing to go there, on a personal level.

I know that's a slippery slope and it may become difficult to draw a line, at some point... but in a community where it is very apparent that there is a lack of trust, understanding, and (ironically) community I find it awfully hard to even want to hold as stringently to certain values than I might, otherwise.

My concern is not that you will have to "deal with it", but more that the view will be that the Player Admin of two years must have known better and thus be treated as someone who willfully disregarded equality and balance to play a twinked character, as opposed to someone who 'honestly didn't know/wasn't thinking about how much their PC was modified."

I suppose it is ironic that the suggestion is to act with a perhaps little less integrity to avoid being seen as someone who has acted without integrity.

Anyway, I reiterate my apology.

My fervent hope is that I am being alarmist and end up feeling really stupid when someone just politely PMs you to say, "Shey is 'out of whack', let's get a time together and make her 'in whack' and call it a day."

In sum, Jayde (1) gave me inside information he gathered because of his personal relationship with FI; (2) suggested a path of lying for me to lessen the impact of PA investigation; and (3) voiced his ideology that integrity can be sacrificed where necessary to avoid trouble – specifically, he wrote: “I operate in a manner that upholds the spirit of this community if not the letter of its laws. If that means being a little shady in order to insure someone does not get treated unfairly, then I'm willing to go there, on a personal level” and then “I suppose it is ironic that the suggestion is to act with a perhaps little less integrity to avoid being seen as someone who has acted without integrity”.

And now Jayde is asking us to put him in a position as DMA while his girlfriend FI is PA and the two of them DM each other, on nothing more than our trust for him.

Well, I like Jayde a lot – he was among the first friends I made when I came to ALFA five years ago – but, by his own admission, he is not honest – he would rather act “shady” to avoid problems. In a situation where he is the DMA and his girlfriend is the PA, and they DM each other, I find that unacceptable. I think Jayde would probably make a decent DMA – I have supported his past campaigns to the extent I was able – but given what I know now, if Jayde is to be our DMA, I think there need to be checks and balances in place as Jayde has admitted he will act with a “little less integrity” where he feels its appropriate to avoid trouble. Accordingly, I think its foolish of us to put him in as our DMA, while FI is PA, unless he agrees not to DM for her and agrees not to have her DM for him. Even then, it’s a question in my mind, but that’s me.

So, there it is. And like in many elections, the people who vote will get exactly what they deserve. While I like Jayde as a person a lot, and I think he might make a fine DMA, given what I know about him, in his own words, unless he is willing to refrain from cross-DMing with his girlfriend, I personally could not support him for Admin.

[fluffmonster]

For someone so willing to bend over backwards in giving people a second chance as PA, you seem rather quick to condemn Jayde.

Color me unconcerned.

[Mikayla]

I am not interested in condemning Jayde at all. As I said, more than once, I think he would probably make a fine DMA ... in most respects ... but he has demonstrated what he thinks of "integrity" and accordingly, I personally don't trust him in a situation where he and FI are DMA, PA, and each other's DMs. If folks are "unconcerned" - so be it.

[HATEFACE]

Christ almighty on a stick! Shut the fuck up! Don't like him? Don't vote.
So now we do what ALFA does best and resort to teabagging fellow members, cause, god damnit! They deserve no less. More drama, more bullshit is what we need MOAR of. One axiom is that it takes two to tango Mikayla. TL;DR. and. . . .

'

Now jayde will post something and then ARGH! GOD FUCKING DAMNIT!
Wouldn't it be possible to maybe solve this some other way than to post it publically? whether this shitstorm causing post is relevant or not is completely irrelevant! Find some other fucking way to vent.

[Mikayla]

Actually, I was hoping not to post this, which is why I asked Jayde what I asked in the Q&A thread, but he rebuffed my request.

So, I think ALFA deserves to know about the integrity of those it is electing - if ALFA still wants to elect Jayde, then fine - thats ALFA's choice and ALFA is fully entitled to make it. But I would like ALFA to make its decisions with all the relevant information in hand, even if it disregards that information in the voting process.

[MorbidKate]

If the information is relevant to the community and to voters specifically it's important to be made aware prior to an election. I'd rather know now than after the vote to be honest.

While a couple that follows each other around Alfa to DM each other's toons (Hardly the first) has it's obvious pitfalls, especially on high player scheming servers like Sembia which might lead to CvC the greater concern is having a couple who clearly discuss matters in 2 of the 5 Admin slots, effectively becoming a blocking vote to any changes should they wish it. It's one thing if they can separate the home life from the online life but Mik's post states pretty clearly that the concern is valid.

Kate

[HATEFACE]

I choose to reserve judgement until all information is made avialable.

[Mikayla]

Helios:

I choose to reserve judgement until all information is made avialable.

No problem - the information you require is that the correct spelling is "available". You may now cast judgment at your leisure.





And yes, that was an attempt at levity. Please forgive if it failed.

[JaydeMoon]

So let me get this straight:

I saw the writing on the wall about a shitstorm headed your way. I felt that you were about to be persecuted and I felt that it might be somewhat unjustly.

Now you want to bring up my integrity. That's fine. As I said in that PM to you, my integrity is to the SPIRIT of this community. That is what I uphold and that is what I'll always uphold.

You sure are a piece of work, Mikayla. It's a funny thing, it is said that those who see faults in everyone else often do because those faults exist in themselves.

To you integrity is about however you can twist the letter of the law to make it work for you. For me integrity is honoring the spirit of the situation and having the courage to do what I think is RIGHT, regardless of the potential consequences.

So let me tell you what I think is right in my situation:

I think it's right that I be allowed to pursue the roleplaying situations within this community that work best for me, regardless of who else is involved, so long as I am following the rules set in place.

I think it's right that while playing or DMing, I follow the standards set by the community in terms of wealth and XP, and not feel like I am entitled to getting or having more because of my special position in the community, or because I feel entitled due to the server I am on, or I feel entitled because of who the DM is.

I think it's right that my wealth levels sit at approximately average or perhaps a little bit below with a reasonable kit, not flaunting the standards with a kit that is worth twice the cut-off value, in the end.

I think it's right that when I see someone being unfairly treated, I should do what I can to help them out.

I see that you don't agree with those things. Differing opinions. Neither are right or wrong.

[Mikayla]

You also thought it was "right" to go behind your girlfriend's back, and you also thought it was "right" to encourage me to lie to the Sembia DMs about discovering the problem. You may think that was justified by the circumstances - I don't. The people of ALFA can decide for themselves - now that they have the information.

[HATEFACE]

Helios:

I choose to reserve judgement until all information is made avialable.

No problem - the information you require is that the correct spelling is "available". You may now cast judgment at your leisure.





And yes, that was an attempt at levity. Please forgive if it failed.

Yes, I get it. I don't bother sending my post through a spell-checker, or make an attempt to spell correctly, or take the time to correct known past mispellings. Don't forget grammar.

And yes, that mas an ajjempt at bevity. Plaese forgive it if it faeled.

Why sur! As a southern gentlemen I am deeply offended by your lack of honah! Maybe, lord wililn', you gentlesirs should settle it with flintlocks at 50 paces! Truley that is the only way civilized folks will regain their honah!

[Zelknolf]

(1) gave me inside information he gathered because of his personal relationship with FI

Incorrect!

My post was public, stating that I couldn't count two PCs as relevant in terms of build because their stats couldn't be produced with NWN's point buy system; every person who read it made the connection to Shey and Faerylene (and Vendrin's godawful sense of balance). FI's position as PA had nothing to do with his access to that information. I'm gonna say it's pretty durn likely that he started the PMs because he could smell the coming shitstorm (and, indeed, most of us could.)

[Mikayla]

(1) gave me inside information he gathered because of his personal relationship with FI

Incorrect!

My post was public, stating that I couldn't count two PCs as relevant in terms of build because their stats couldn't be produced with NWN's point buy system; every person who read it made the connection to Shey and Faerylene (and Vendrin's godawful sense of balance). FI's position as PA had nothing to do with his access to that information. I'm gonna say it's pretty durn likely that he started the PMs because he could smell the coming shitstorm (and, indeed, most of us could.)

Fair enough - I did not have access to those forums so I only know what Jayde told me, and Jayde told me that the information was moved from a public forum to a private one and that he was worried the Admin would "connect the dots" and realized he was getting information because he is FI's confidante. Maybe that last part of what he told me was not true - I don't know.

[psycho_leo]

Fair enough - I did not have access to those forums so I only know what Jayde told me, and Jayde told me that the information was moved from a public forum to a private one and that he was worried the Admin would "connect the dots" and realized he was getting information because he is FI's confidante. Maybe that last part of what he told me was not true - I don't know.

It was in the tech forum if I'm not mistaken or some other I also had access to at the time. Didn't take a genius to know who she was talking about or what would follow.

[Teric neDhalir]

Hey, you know what? You're all ruining my hobby. Thanks for that. I wonder if I'll be able to find the energy to do any work on WHL tonight? Perhaps I'll just think that spending more hours making a playground for people who are incapable of forgiveness, compromise or generosity (and that is not aimed solely at the two protagonists of this thread) is simply not worth it.

Kiss, kiss,
Teric