DMA Recall Discussion for the Plebes Who Cannot Vote

[Valdimir]

Here's Johnny Original. He's a Lawful Good Fighter 6/Ranger 2/Rogue 2. Without any prior knowledge, would you DM Kill him on the spot for the good of ALFA and all its inhabitants?

When I took the test I answered, "only if it is Magile's PC."

[danielmn]

I respect Vald and his comments. He is among the upstanding of the community. He is correct in that standards needed to be instituted in game....not to add burden to dm's, though it did, though a very minor one at best, not to piss people off, but to even the playing field a bit. He handled some cases very poorly, but on the whole the standards of what a player can have at a level was a definate boon...

I have been one of the have nots many times...mostly because of my own PC choices though...

Rusty stepped to the plate. And I commend him for it, it needed to be done. The persecution that happened because of t was unneeded.

Rusty is a good bare bones guy. He sees, he strikes when it is up his alley. however, if it isn't up his alley, he'll delay it for as long as possible, weather it be for the good or ill of ALFA. THe only way to truely tell the difference is by testing...saying flat out I don't support this is no way to have a good sound decision made. If something doesn't work, backpeddle and honestly say, this doesn't work, rather than flat out saying no. Give it a chance....anything can be compromised upon.

And there is the word.....Compromise. I can honestly appreciate someone sticking to their guns thick and thin once something is begun...but a chance must be given for everything. A no we won't just doesn't fit into my book...it never flies at my workplace. A we will do the best we can does. And that is what is truely needed. And I believe that is the attitude most ALFAN's desire from the Admin.

I have seen many posts about how the current system is flawed...I do not see it as such. THe system isn't flawed...the attitude of some of those primarily involved within that system is. As a player, I look to a "We will try, and if it doesn't work, we will try something else, but we aren't going to just say no." And I belive some of our Admin embody that spirit. And others work against that spirit.

I respect everyone in this community, no matter how little or much involve.

I respect Rusty for his implementation of standards at a crucial point in our path. Notice I say OUR, for no matter how different we all are from one another, we are all a part of the whole. This is OUR place, OUR dedication and time goes here.

I Have a deep respect for both Cipher and AL, for their ceaseless dedication to OUR needs. Always giving, and always looking to waht is fair.

I have a deep respect for both Mik and FI, they have both allowed me to be a bigger part of this community, and FI as well as Jayde have made me feel like a part of it at my worst time. All three of these people go way out of their way to make a player feel at home, and I have deep respect for all three. (And I do not mean to lump Jayde and FI together,, however when you've worked with and have had so much contact with these two individuals, it is hard to separate them, for you realize though individuals, they both work toward the common good of ALFA)

I could not sing Hailmar's praises enough....when in a position of need, he always came through for me, and came through for me in a split second. Done, no questions asked.

Wynna, the logical and sensible. I would have no one but Pazz follow her, for they are both even keel people.

I've heard a lot of grumbling over the years about admin. ANd yet, the community persists.

On the whole, if any admin is MIA for a prolonged period of time with no warning, I would expect the community to act. Not just Rusty, but any admin. WHen running, you should know that you will be donating your time to the community, and must keep tabs with others when you are unable to do so.

I guess that's about it from me....

I will leave you with the words of Rufus, the coolest mentor ever...

"Be excellent to each other."

[MShady]

Magile: Here's Johnny Original. He's a Lawful Good Fighter 6/Ranger 2/Rogue 2. Without any prior knowledge, would you DM Kill him on the spot for the good of ALFA and all its inhabitants?

Here's Gnome McGnomerstein. He's a level 10 wizard, but he has items that no ALFA in their right mind will ever see. Will you DM Kill him on the spot in order to bring about a bright, fresh and new future for ALFA?

Vendrin: And those are actual questions Rusty has asked.

Not kidding, Vendrin. He kept me locked up for months on Luskan.

Litterally prevented my PC from leaving Luskan for the crime of showing up on it and not liking me.

I showed up to help another player move their character to that server. As soon as I arrived, I was told I was unable to leave the server as I was now involved in a plot. As there was nothing going on, and locked in a town I never wanted to be in where you could barely AT to another area, I wanted to leave. I also did not want to play with the DMs there as I did not like, know or trust Rusty or another DM there.

When I complained about leaving, Rusty punatively decided to block me from leaving. The whole region was now surronded by Luskan's forces and they prevented any teleports, recalls, gate or miracles spells from working.

They than proceeded to do nothing, until they came up with the worst DM session in ALFA history. They threw hundreds of demons, devils and soldiers at my PC, nearly killed another PC having tech problems as they did not want to stop and finally spawned a Pit Fiend, a CR20+ creature. After killing that 6 times (it magically regenerated), the DM repeatedly jumped my PC on to a bridge I refused to get on IC. Why? The plot they wanted to do demanded my PC fall off that bridge and I, as a player, had no other option to do what they wanted.

No, I'm not kidding. A member of his DM team provided extensive testimony to support all that. A Lead Admin reviewed all of it and quit the next day apparently after discussing the issue with Rusty. They later told me that DM should be thrown out of the DM ranks for doing all that. The DMA, the guy supposed to be supervising DMs? He violently defended doing it.

Rusty teaching DMs standards on how to DM is a joke. If you are a DM and think thats okay to do to a player, raise your hand. He has no credibility on the most important DMing standard...

Integrity.

I don't think its appropriate to have a DMA who has asked those questions: if its okay to target people they don't like.

[Mayhem]

I'd just like ot point out that dragging up issues from before the vote is totally irrelevant to the recall.

Rick especially, all these "I hate Rusty because..." issues, whilst valid, where known about BEFORE he was re-elected to his post. They are, therefore, frankly, totally irrelevant to any recall proceeding.

A recall should be based ONLY on issues that have come to light since he was elected. Do you have any?

***

Speaking of which - to those saying "we have a list of people who hate him, where are all the people who support him, where are their arguments?" I'd say it was patently clear - there was a vote, he was voted in. Therefore a majority DID support him, and had, I'm sure, their reasons for doing so.

***

With regard to his absence, is there anything in ALFA's regs that says what happens when an admin goes offline for an unexplained, extended period? I don't know how long he has been "awol", and clearly we need somebody to act in his place in his absence, so vote for an ACTING DMA to fill the post till October. Agree BEFORE this vote takes place what will happen if the incumbnt returns.

Come October, whoever has been in the "acting" role should have a pretty good chance of getting the permanent position.

[psycho_leo]

I'd just like ot point out that dragging up issues from before the vote is totally irrelevant to the recall.

No, it isn't. His track record is precisely what will define the outcome of this voting. Just like in the past election, where his constituency decided the good outweighted the bad, again his rights and wrongs will be put on a scale and voters will decided if they still feel there's more good than bad or not.

[Swift]

A recall should be based ONLY on issues that have come to light since he was elected. Do you have any?

I disagree. This is not a criminal case in a court of law where prior record is not allowed to sway the jury, this is about whether or not the DMA remains fit to do his job, and to determine that, people should be given all the details about his pattern of behavior up to this point, since it is his behavior that has been the big sticking point.

[Mayhem]

How can you justify a vote recall based on facts that were already known at the time of the vote?

"Rusty is a Jerk"
"We don't care, we just voted for him."
"Nu-Uh! I'm going to ask for a recall!"
"On what grounds!"
"He's still a jerk!"

Sets a lousy precedent of "I don't like who won the vote, let's start a recall" without any additional reason. The process should not be abused like that.

The REASON for the recall has to be totally unconnected to prior knowledge, otherwise what is the point in the vote in the first place?

I disagree. This is not a criminal case in a court of law where prior record is not allowed to sway the jury, this is about whether or not the DMA remains fit to do his job, and to determine that, people should be given all the details about his pattern of behavior up to this point, since it is his behavior that has been the big sticking point.

No, it isn't a criminal court, but if this really is a question of "whether or not the DMA remains fit to do his job" then we are presumably starting from the point that at the time of the vote, he WAS considered fit to do the job, past behaviour notwithstanding. If he wasn't, he presumably wouldn't have been voted in.

The question should therefore be "What has changed?"

[MShady]

There is no provision for an "acting DMA".

Nor should we fill that post till October with someone provisionally in "hopes" he will come back.

That's actually not out of a strong desire to see him go, but based off of precedent. Ava particularly and think Squamatus in part when they were Recalled.

Considering past precedent when we could have done that, and didn't (also for good reason - no provision, not a good idea), we shouldn't this time.

Him not actually being here is only one component of this though. Recent job performance, combined with bad, hypocritical, mean behavior and OOC bullying are also factors. I think he won the last time in part because we were about to go Live and people didn't want to change horses at that point.

Certainly not on the basis of sympathy. Its not like he ever has.

[psycho_leo]

While I agree that proposing a new recall based solely on things that happened before the last attempt and before the last election would be in bad form and set a bad precedent, this is not the case.

The list of problems regarding the DMA office have been piling up for too long and they just keep coming. The delay on making a decision on the base classes even after all debate ceased and his sudden disapearance were just the last ones and both came into play after the last election. And while you and anyone else has every right to argue if those are valid reasons to make a recall, it's a pointless discussion by now. HDMs and Admins already decided they were valid and pushed the recall to a vote.

The point I was trying to make though is that his past behaviour does have to come into play once the recall motion is approved. His past behaviour will after all, come into discussion every time he decides to run for office. Wether DMs and staff heads will take into account in their reasoning for voting or simply decide Rusty is worth keeping even with all the storms that seems to surround him is up to them.

[Swift]

No, it isn't a criminal court, but if this really is a question of "whether or not the DMA remains fit to do his job" then we are presumably starting from the point that at the time of the vote, he WAS considered fit to do the job, past behaviour notwithstanding. If he wasn't, he presumably wouldn't have been voted in.

The question should therefore be "What has changed?"

Very little, but what has is presumably the straw that broke the camels back. Unless people come out and say it, we won't know, but my view of this recall succeeding in reaching the voting stage while the last one failed is simply that there has been one thing too many and some minds are changing.

If you were not allowed to weigh prior history when it comes to a recall, there is no point having them. I can remember 1 recall since the quake (Squam) and it was based on a pattern over a period of time, not any 1 event (ie he was never here at the time).

On a lighter note, if recalls are not allowed to look at prior history, i propose that prior history be totally ignored for standard elections as well. After all, prior deeds and patterns of behavior don't matter, right?

[MorbidKate]

This is just getting silly. If an Admin is being disruptive, negatively affecting the community or gone AWOL they must be replaced for the sake of the project. Period. If Rusty survives a SECOND recall solely because he has just enough well placed friends to block the vote it will only highlight the drastic need for change how we govern ourselves.

Sit back and take a good look at the GD forums to see what damage is being done. I've had my own issues with Rusty as HDM of TPI and I fully support the recall because I feel it's both warranted and needed to move forward. Trying to rules lawyer to maintain the status quo is ludicrous at this point.

Voters, do the right thing.

Kate

[Arkan Bladesinger]

I find it quite ironic that this thread started with a quote from a discussion from DM recall thread which contained the following questioning line:

I only want to see anyone say something nice about Rusty, because he only seems to be a source of drama and negativity for the community.

And Misty said something positive, but the thread continued on to what could be summarized as:
- Don´t say anything nice of Rusty.
- If you say something nice of Rusty, think again.
- If you still say something nice you´re an evil minion

Continued to:
Rusty has a Cabal. All the NWN1 DM´s must work for him, they don´t care of NWN2 and don´t have their own minds etc etc

Then Valdimir gives reasoned answer on why Rusty has been voted for and the response is "lol Some NWN1 HDM speaks teehee". And someone said NWN1 folk divide Community from NWN2? Orly?

I do not say that there hasn´t been drama around Rusty. There has and bloody lot and it could perhaps be better for the health of the whole community to elect someone else just because too many people can´t work with him for one reason or another. But, there are always several sides to any arguments and the way things against him have been portrayed in this thread particularly do not seem an exeptionally good way to tie a Community together, either.

I do dare say that any other DMA with decisions that don´t please the majority would´ve been despised as well and have been, but Rusty is an easy target with his manners. Sure he is a crusty bastard and has pissed off dozens, but he is no demon set out to destroy ALFA.

At this point it propably sounds idiotic to say that I´m cool with the guy personally and professionaly because I know my whole post and thoughts contained will be ignored and ridiculed just because of those statements. Being in friendly relationship with someone has never been the deciding factor on elections for me, though, and to imply all the NWN1 DM´s are mindless minions is simply insulting. I do agree that the future is in NWN2, I´m playing in TSM and enjoying it; most likely if the things evolve naturally building and DM´ng will come along. But insulting a group of people because you hate one person is not good Code of Conduct, either.

*looks above* Well, not that much about Rusty this post, but more about how everyone should mind themselves, not just him.

[MorbidKate]

Sure he is a crusty bastard and has pissed off dozens

Besides being AFK that's basically the root of the problem and it just can't continue any longer if we're to stop bleeding talent and players.

Kate

[JaydeMoon]

I hope this recall is not about whether folks like Rusty or not, whether they feel they can get along with him, or whether they have been personable or not.

I hope this recall is determined by folks asking themselves, "Is Rusty the best thing for this community?"

Asking yourself that question, you may come up with 'Yes' and vote against the recall. But that's what we should be looking at, trying to objectively determine if the best man for the job is Rusty.

And Mayhem, you have a point. The recall should not be based on those past instances directly.

however, the recall is based on what is a 'pattern' of behavior.

Rusty said he would change. We thought he would take the needs and the desires of the community seriously and not simply run things 'his' way.

That has not happened. The recall is based on the fact that there has not been an appreciable change and that the DMA is neglecting his post and neglecting the needs and desires of the community. All of the other stuff is merely to say, "Yes, let's keep this in mind."

Even in a court of law, past infractions are often taken into account, even if they have no relation whatsoever to the current infraction, except as to establish a pattern. Smarter and more reasonable men than I have determined that this is how you gauge a person, by his current and past acts.

[Swift]

I hope this recall is determined by folks asking themselves, "Is Rusty the best thing for this community?"

Elections are, by their nature, popularity contests. You find me an election at any point in the history of the world where it was actually about 'who can do the job best' instead of 'who is popular' and i will give you a cookie