Finally someone who talks sense.
Seriously, go ahead and run MShady. Vendrin shouldn't be the only suit in it to win it. Its downright unpatriotic.
A Proposed Lead Admin Platform
Moderator: ALFA Administrators
-
HATEFACE
- Dr. Horrible
- Posts: 1068
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:17 am
- Location: A seething caldron of passive aggressive rage.
“In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.” - Open Message to the Executive Branch.
-
Swift
- Mook
- Posts: 4043
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:59 pm
- Location: Im somewhere where i dont know where i am
- Contact:
A serious question:
Do you believe having such conflict and animosity within the Admin team will help to push ALFA forward and make us better?
Do you think the opening up the standards forum to be viewable by all members and compelling the team to listen to suggestions from anyone who makes them will improve the way standards are done? Do you think the signal to noise ratio will go up, down, or sit about the same?
Do you believe having such conflict and animosity within the Admin team will help to push ALFA forward and make us better?
Do you think the opening up the standards forum to be viewable by all members and compelling the team to listen to suggestions from anyone who makes them will improve the way standards are done? Do you think the signal to noise ratio will go up, down, or sit about the same?
-
MShady
- Orc Champion
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:09 pm
- Location: On the line. Where the metal meets the meat.
- Contact:
Unfortunately if you want to make an omelet you have to break some eggs in regards to fixing Admin.
Restructuring it should not create animosity. If it does, it's a commentary on the people occupying the Admin positions and not the ideas so much. A skillful Lead, being the opinion leader they should be, would be able to navigate those waters.
I don't anticipate Rusty would like Standards being moved under Lead. That's a commentary on him and how things have gotten very territorial. The only person constantly causing tension there is basically Rusty. He can also be out voted.
The DM Admin position is overloaded and Lead has little more than a veto and consensus. The idea though is to turn Standards itself into a consensus process. DM Admin still has an enormous amount of stuff to do. A change in focus would bring greater involvement between the DM Admin and DMs. Lead is also fairly toothless.
Standards impact PA, DM, Tech and sorta Infra making Lead the ideal Admin position to run this and run it as a cooperative effort of all the Admin departments.
As for opening up the Standards forum, why not? The Admin forum is viewable, why shouldn't standards be? It is silly that the Favored Souls and Warlock debate were moved forward by people emailing the Lead who prompted Standards to move forward.
There is nothing particularly sensitive going on there that players should not be able to see. It does not need to be a secret society. More outside input can't hurt. If a few people want to drop an occasional question or concern, particularly the DMs when they feel the need... why not?
If it becomes more transparent, people will have greater interest in standards. They may also actually understand them better or even want to become involved. That's not a bad thing. It's a good thing.
Standards as a standing committee in and of itself is not an idea I have ever liked. You stick 8 people on a committee and they will keep doing stuff, often long past the point when things actually need to be done. That's never a good thing in a bureaucracy. If things don't have an end date, objectives tend to drift. That's not a shot at anyone or thing, its just something I and anyone else who has worked in government or the corporate world knows.
Standing committees are rarely a good idea.
I'd strongly suggest wrapping up whatever outstanding business there is and shutting it down. Review things every 6 months based on the membership outline I suggested. Changes in the interim that can't wait can be approved by an Admin vote.
Restructuring it should not create animosity. If it does, it's a commentary on the people occupying the Admin positions and not the ideas so much. A skillful Lead, being the opinion leader they should be, would be able to navigate those waters.
I don't anticipate Rusty would like Standards being moved under Lead. That's a commentary on him and how things have gotten very territorial. The only person constantly causing tension there is basically Rusty. He can also be out voted.
The DM Admin position is overloaded and Lead has little more than a veto and consensus. The idea though is to turn Standards itself into a consensus process. DM Admin still has an enormous amount of stuff to do. A change in focus would bring greater involvement between the DM Admin and DMs. Lead is also fairly toothless.
Standards impact PA, DM, Tech and sorta Infra making Lead the ideal Admin position to run this and run it as a cooperative effort of all the Admin departments.
As for opening up the Standards forum, why not? The Admin forum is viewable, why shouldn't standards be? It is silly that the Favored Souls and Warlock debate were moved forward by people emailing the Lead who prompted Standards to move forward.
There is nothing particularly sensitive going on there that players should not be able to see. It does not need to be a secret society. More outside input can't hurt. If a few people want to drop an occasional question or concern, particularly the DMs when they feel the need... why not?
If it becomes more transparent, people will have greater interest in standards. They may also actually understand them better or even want to become involved. That's not a bad thing. It's a good thing.
Standards as a standing committee in and of itself is not an idea I have ever liked. You stick 8 people on a committee and they will keep doing stuff, often long past the point when things actually need to be done. That's never a good thing in a bureaucracy. If things don't have an end date, objectives tend to drift. That's not a shot at anyone or thing, its just something I and anyone else who has worked in government or the corporate world knows.
Standing committees are rarely a good idea.
I'd strongly suggest wrapping up whatever outstanding business there is and shutting it down. Review things every 6 months based on the membership outline I suggested. Changes in the interim that can't wait can be approved by an Admin vote.
"Audentes fortuna juvat - Fortune favors the bold. (Virgil)"
"Spartans, lay down your arms!"
"Come take them!"
ALFA Browncoats
"Spartans, lay down your arms!"
"Come take them!"
ALFA Browncoats
-
MShady
- Orc Champion
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:09 pm
- Location: On the line. Where the metal meets the meat.
- Contact:
The Constant Cycle of Elections:
We are always running an election around here. It is fatiguing. Terms need to be 6 months.
I would suggest electing Tech and Infra at the same time, followed by DM and Player Admins at the same time.
Lead can go whenever.
This keeps the same number of elections, at the same frequency. They just don't clog the boards every month.
The Election Process
Right now we have a nomination process followed by the voting process.
We are throwing the debate process into the nomination process. As has happened a few times before, someone jumps in on the last day and its on to voting.
We post an election schedule as a stick so everyone knows WHEN the next elections for whatever positions will be. Nomination process is 3 days. Debate is 4 days. Voting process is 1 week.
Same amount of time but prevents blind side elections.
We are always running an election around here. It is fatiguing. Terms need to be 6 months.
I would suggest electing Tech and Infra at the same time, followed by DM and Player Admins at the same time.
Lead can go whenever.
This keeps the same number of elections, at the same frequency. They just don't clog the boards every month.
The Election Process
Right now we have a nomination process followed by the voting process.
We are throwing the debate process into the nomination process. As has happened a few times before, someone jumps in on the last day and its on to voting.
We post an election schedule as a stick so everyone knows WHEN the next elections for whatever positions will be. Nomination process is 3 days. Debate is 4 days. Voting process is 1 week.
Same amount of time but prevents blind side elections.
"Audentes fortuna juvat - Fortune favors the bold. (Virgil)"
"Spartans, lay down your arms!"
"Come take them!"
ALFA Browncoats
"Spartans, lay down your arms!"
"Come take them!"
ALFA Browncoats
-
Mikayla
- Valsharess of ALFA
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:37 pm
- Location: Qu'ellar Faen Tlabbar, Noble Room 7, Menzoberranzan, NorthUnderdark
I am not sure who said it first, MShady or Vendrin, but they are correct when they suggest that Standards should be moved under the Lead Admin.
As originally conceived, the Standards team was put together to do only a few things, and basically that boiled down to determining the rate at which DMs gave out experience points and gold, and how to price magic items. That was it.
NOW, however, under the current DMA, Standards has absorbed much more - now it appears that Standards gets to redesign classes (a tech thing which affects players, not DMs), Standards gets to decide which classes go in or not, and same with races; etc. etc.
Standards has become "Rules" - they have slowly but surely expanded their reach to include just about any and all rule-making for ALFA. Infact, at this point, when it comes to how ALFA is actually played, the Standards team is far more influential than the Admin.
Given that the Standards team now involves itself in things that more directly fall under the Tech Admin's purview or the Player Admin's purview, the Standards team should be moved under the Lead Admin.
As originally conceived, the Standards team was put together to do only a few things, and basically that boiled down to determining the rate at which DMs gave out experience points and gold, and how to price magic items. That was it.
NOW, however, under the current DMA, Standards has absorbed much more - now it appears that Standards gets to redesign classes (a tech thing which affects players, not DMs), Standards gets to decide which classes go in or not, and same with races; etc. etc.
Standards has become "Rules" - they have slowly but surely expanded their reach to include just about any and all rule-making for ALFA. Infact, at this point, when it comes to how ALFA is actually played, the Standards team is far more influential than the Admin.
Given that the Standards team now involves itself in things that more directly fall under the Tech Admin's purview or the Player Admin's purview, the Standards team should be moved under the Lead Admin.
Last edited by Mikayla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ALFA1-NWN1: Sheyreiza Valakahsa
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
A rift raft is a type of small two-to-three-person space vessel used to travel on rivers through rifts in the time-space continuum.
"Cleavage is like the sun. You can look, but it's best not to stare into it for too long." -Anon
Current PC: Claina Maynarren, halfling
Current PC: Claina Maynarren, halfling
To add to what Mikayla is saying, Standards also consumes the DMA role, so much so that DM disputes or decisions regarding DM assignments and admission are arbitrarily set by the DMA without a dispute forum or even room to negotiate or vote on DM related issues.
The HDM's are such a small number that the ca be easily swayed by the Admin.
And the NWN2 HDM's and DM decisions easily outmaneuvered by the more populaous NWN1 DM's.
In a pie representation Admin body, the DMA has standards, DM's, and thus control over the other Admins. His shared of the pie is greater than the remaining combined roles of the other Admins.
The DMA determines standards, thus tech admin decisions, and thus Player Admin decisions regarding playing classes.
The PA has been reduced to the PA dispute forum with no say in the player classes
The Tech Admin has been reduced to coding what the standards tell him to code.
The LA has no real authority to check the DMA's movements and thus the DMA expands his portfolia unimpeded.
The DMA does not DM in NWN2 and is continually voted in by his cabal of NWN1 DM supporters who outnumber the NWN2 DM's (who at the time of the last election number about 5).
Thus, in effect, ALFA is run by the DMA.
The next LA must actively reduce the DMA portfolia to management and training of DM's, and add in a DM dispute process so that the DMA does not arbitrarily continue as the judge and jury of DM's, (read HIS DM's).
The next LA must ensure that voting for critical issues to the entire community be voted upon BY the ENTIRE community.
The HDM's are such a small number that the ca be easily swayed by the Admin.
And the NWN2 HDM's and DM decisions easily outmaneuvered by the more populaous NWN1 DM's.
In a pie representation Admin body, the DMA has standards, DM's, and thus control over the other Admins. His shared of the pie is greater than the remaining combined roles of the other Admins.
The DMA determines standards, thus tech admin decisions, and thus Player Admin decisions regarding playing classes.
The PA has been reduced to the PA dispute forum with no say in the player classes
The Tech Admin has been reduced to coding what the standards tell him to code.
The LA has no real authority to check the DMA's movements and thus the DMA expands his portfolia unimpeded.
The DMA does not DM in NWN2 and is continually voted in by his cabal of NWN1 DM supporters who outnumber the NWN2 DM's (who at the time of the last election number about 5).
Thus, in effect, ALFA is run by the DMA.
The next LA must actively reduce the DMA portfolia to management and training of DM's, and add in a DM dispute process so that the DMA does not arbitrarily continue as the judge and jury of DM's, (read HIS DM's).
The next LA must ensure that voting for critical issues to the entire community be voted upon BY the ENTIRE community.
-
MShady
- Orc Champion
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:09 pm
- Location: On the line. Where the metal meets the meat.
- Contact:
I'd agree with everything you just said Rick and thanks for explaining why better than I really could.
Consider running?
We seriously need to restructure. The DMA runs almost everything and that pie needs to divied up among more appropriate people. Or we need to abolish Lead and let the DMA do both. Which is a bad idea but effectively what we have now.
Also we've become so legalistic, its pretty hard and maybe we need to look at that holistically.
Consider running?
We seriously need to restructure. The DMA runs almost everything and that pie needs to divied up among more appropriate people. Or we need to abolish Lead and let the DMA do both. Which is a bad idea but effectively what we have now.
Also we've become so legalistic, its pretty hard and maybe we need to look at that holistically.
"Audentes fortuna juvat - Fortune favors the bold. (Virgil)"
"Spartans, lay down your arms!"
"Come take them!"
ALFA Browncoats
"Spartans, lay down your arms!"
"Come take them!"
ALFA Browncoats
-
HATEFACE
- Dr. Horrible
- Posts: 1068
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:17 am
- Location: A seething caldron of passive aggressive rage.
Talk is cheap ALFA suit. Give your aching fingers a break and get with the doing.
“In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.” - Open Message to the Executive Branch.
I don't troll in this forum or any other. I no longer participate in ALFA in any meaningful fashion (Build, DM, Play, Politician, Play politician). That's because, of what some of you have known for some time and others are just beginning to realize. It's why you're having this discussion. And it's refreshing to see actual discourse instead of the normal BS here. But, this post might change that. So, consider this post half-trolling.
As I have been saying for the last, I don't know, damn near three years... ALFA's system is, I believe the trendy term is, "EPIC FAIL. And it ain't just Rusty the Black Prince of ALFA. It will be the final nail in ALFA's virtual coffin. ALFA ain't the problem, and neither are most of the people, just the system that runs it.
And a request. TT, could you please post that pick of Emperor Palapatine falling into the tube/abyss thing or something else appropriate? Thank you.
As I have been saying for the last, I don't know, damn near three years... ALFA's system is, I believe the trendy term is, "EPIC FAIL. And it ain't just Rusty the Black Prince of ALFA. It will be the final nail in ALFA's virtual coffin. ALFA ain't the problem, and neither are most of the people, just the system that runs it.
And a request. TT, could you please post that pick of Emperor Palapatine falling into the tube/abyss thing or something else appropriate? Thank you.
"You people have not given Private Pyle the proper motivation! So, from now on, when Private Pyle fucks up... I will not punish him. I will punish all of you! And the way I see it, ladies... you owe me for one jelly donut! Now, get on your faces!"
-
Mikayla
- Valsharess of ALFA
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:37 pm
- Location: Qu'ellar Faen Tlabbar, Noble Room 7, Menzoberranzan, NorthUnderdark
Rick:
This is a perfect analysis of what has happened to ALFA, and fighting this is what brought me into constant conflict with Rusty - Rusty has used Standards and his control over the DM corps to basically take hold of ALFA to the point that no one else really matters. And thats ALFA's current governance problem in a nut-shell. The Standards team needs to be moved out from under the DMA; things like what classes and races are available to players needs to be returned to the Player Admin, and things like ECL/LA need to be returned to the Tech Admin as they are the ones who make things like that happen. Right now, as Rick says, Rusty has managed to use the Standards team and his control of the DM corps in an attempt to make himself ALFA's unilateral dictator - and its about time ALFA addressed that.To add to what Mikayla is saying, Standards also consumes the DMA role, so much so that DM disputes or decisions regarding DM assignments and admission are arbitrarily set by the DMA without a dispute forum or even room to negotiate or vote on DM related issues.
The HDM's are such a small number that the ca be easily swayed by the Admin.
And the NWN2 HDM's and DM decisions easily outmaneuvered by the more populaous NWN1 DM's.
In a pie representation Admin body, the DMA has standards, DM's, and thus control over the other Admins. His shared of the pie is greater than the remaining combined roles of the other Admins.
The DMA determines standards, thus tech admin decisions, and thus Player Admin decisions regarding playing classes.
The PA has been reduced to the PA dispute forum with no say in the player classes
The Tech Admin has been reduced to coding what the standards tell him to code.
The LA has no real authority to check the DMA's movements and thus the DMA expands his portfolia unimpeded.
The DMA does not DM in NWN2 and is continually voted in by his cabal of NWN1 DM supporters who outnumber the NWN2 DM's (who at the time of the last election number about 5).
Thus, in effect, ALFA is run by the DMA.
ALFA1-NWN1: Sheyreiza Valakahsa
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
The next LA must actively reduce the DMA portfolia to management and training of DM's, and add in a DM dispute process so that the DMA does not arbitrarily continue as the judge and jury of DM's, (read HIS DM's).
Well said. Less government all around, and the bit that is needed should be mostly in the hands of the HDMs.
J