Why the static quest XP reduction?

[Cynon]

ooooh... which was the clear DM stance? I missed that one.

[HATEFACE]

All of them.

[Burt]

ooooh... which was the clear DM stance? I missed that one.

Maybe you should read the first 3 pages then. Note posts by darren, Wynna and AL. They make up a majority of the DMs/builders as far as I'm aware.

Quests are obviously not returning to the original reward levels. Time to deal and move on.

[HATEFACE]

I'm an idiot. I should have realized who is at fault.

[AcadiusLost]

it's a simple case of players were playing and people had no problem with any of it and the DM's and builders who have been here forever and know the standards well have set it at a balanced and reasonable level and someone in Admin has decided to reduce it.

The recent change in (some) static XP awards was made by me, not by admin. I was not asked to do this by Admin, and it was not done out of spite or some kind of mad dislike for "the players". Simply put, the XP reward for some of the Rivermoot statics was, in my opinion, not tied into the duration/difficulty/risk formula we try to use for ALFA. At the same time I decreased (slightly) the awards for the almost-zero risk statics (from 33 xp to 25 xp), I also enabled changes that allow PCs to work together to complete the Raid/Combat quests, which were the ones leading to many PC deaths. There were bugs in the quests before, which meant that if you got help in the combat, the quest would likely get broken if someone else in your party got the kill.

I actually raised the XP award for the Exploration 1 quest, because the award was too low for the risk involved.

The only significant XP reward decreases were on the "Stage 3" quests, which used to reward twice as much as the stage 2 ones. Each of these had problems of its own, we can itemize them if you really want.

Exploration 3: This is/was a good long hike through potentially dangerous territory, decent for a 3rd tier static. However, with 10-25 players on around the clock in the Rivermoot area, by the time players were getting to this quest, most of the "risk" along the way tended to have been cleared out by then, so it was only the unfortunate player who tried the static right after a mod reset who was getting the full risk.

Scouting 3: Originally this involved scouting 2 separate valleys, each guarded by groups of humanoids. In the rush to Live, and due to complications in the Quest system for multitrigger quests, this was changed to one valley only, which happened to be the less guarded one, which also happened to be only 40 seconds or so away from the questgiver. So, again- a good % of the time, it was unguarded. The rest of the time, it was less than 40% of the quest it was intended to be. That the XP wasn't reduced accordingly before Live was just an oversight, due to juggling a hundred other things in bringing the server to Live.

Raids 3: This is a tough combat against a single opponent, now completable with any size party. You have to be there to get credit, but my fixes made it so you no longer have to solo the target creature (who can dish out some seriously nasty crits). Before this quest was ~142 XP for a single combat against a single creature, which takes only a minute or so. As a high-rewarding static, there was significant OOC pressure to try the combat specifically because of the high reward. The decrease in reward level on this one means it's no longer an "absolute necessity" to do the static. Those who wish to risk the one-hit crit death, can. But it's not gambling for 150xp of instant gratification anymore.

I'd also like to point out that about the same time, seven more statics were enabled in the High Hold area. Three of those were scouting statics, two of which aren't likely to result in combat for even a nonstealth PC. The other quests added are party-completable, which makes for good RP.

I've also fixed a subtle bug in the RPXP scripts, which was limiting the accumulation of banked XP. Cynon, if you haven't had a chance to check these out, they award automatically without having to wait for a DM to come around and tap you with the XP wand, so they're another tool to help advancement along.

To clarify, in my view statics are there to offer something to do in character for those PCs for whom it is in character to do. I sympathize with the desire to move out of level 1 before too long, but it's important to realize that it's an OOC desire, and it shouldn't have to lead to scrawny 1st level bards trying to kill giant bugbears "so they don't fall behind in XP". I'd certainly like to add more statics that allow PCs less built around combat effectiveness to advance to 2nd in a reasonable amount of time, but I'm generally opposed to the sense that every PC should be doing every static "because they're there to get us to 2nd/3rd level". ALFA should be a place where we're playing IC all the time, not just once we reach 2nd/3rd level.

My only opinion is that I'm gonna try ALFA out again. I'm going to play a straight forward PC, I'll find something to do when I log on whether it's to find some content to play or wander aimlessly until I bump into something or someone, but I'm not going to sit and be bored Roleplaying with myself for hours.

I'm glad that you've decided to give ALFA another chance- everything I've heard about your RP has been very positive. I hope that you find that once you're in-game and in-character, that inevitable OOC annoyances kind of fade into the background and don't impede your experience onserver. It's easy to get caught up in forum/IRC squabbles over minutia, but in the end it's the stories we bring to life as players and/or as DMs that make ALFA a worthwhile place.

[fluffmonster]

AL, thanks for that explanation.

I will note that some of the reasoning depends on the assumption of large numbers of PCs routinely clearing out spawns which lowers the expected risk of a quest. That assumption will not likely be valid as we get further into live and PC density falls off, and I respectfully suggest that DMs continually review the assumption for validity as when it no longer applies, another award revision may be appropriate.

[Mulu]

ALFA is designed to be difficult.

Why? How does that make RP better?

Because difficulty tends to make people less cavalier about the decisions they make with their PC. Difficulty introduces fear, doubt, nuance, and even the sorrow of death. Diificulty makes planning and tactics necessary.

The difficulty is what hooked me as a player in ALFA and it is why I will never be able to play on a non-permatdeath server.

ALFA is designed to be difficult and is the better for it.

Well, I like permadeath too, but there's "requires tactics" difficult and there's "doomed to die unless all you do is stay in safe areas" difficult. Make things too hard and it's a disincentive to adventure at all, which is *exactly* what I see in game, people standing around in safe areas emoting once per minute to trigger the RP increment and taking no risks to their PC's at all. What a dull world we've become already, and that dullness is a result of server design. My desire to continue playing wanes with each passing week. Thank the gods I have some fun peeps to rp with, and go adventuring with.

To clarify, in my view statics are there to offer something to do in character for those PCs for whom it is in character to do. I sympathize with the desire to move out of level 1 before too long, but it's important to realize that it's an OOC desire, and it shouldn't have to lead to scrawny 1st level bards trying to kill giant bugbears "so they don't fall behind in XP". I'd certainly like to add more statics that allow PCs less built around combat effectiveness to advance to 2nd in a reasonable amount of time, but I'm generally opposed to the sense that every PC should be doing every static "because they're there to get us to 2nd/3rd level". ALFA should be a place where we're playing IC all the time, not just once we reach 2nd/3rd level.

First, let me say thanks for all the hard work. Now let me disagree with you.

I don't care *how* PC's get to 3rd level. Statics seem like an obvious way especially since doing a static in a party is the closest thing to playing D&D that ALFA offers outside of a DM'ed session. If you don't think it's IC to play D&D in ALFA, in other words for D&D PC's to go adventuring, well that is a common ALFA misperception I must admit. Give people a lever in the start merchant room to go straight to 3rd if that makes you feel better. Scale RP XP to be very high for 1st - 3rd and then taper to very low or even zero. Make it possible to pay for training to gain xp for gp at low levels. Increase combat xp at low levels to encourage more adventuring outside of statics. Do whatever you want but make it easier to get to 3rd level.

Also, ALFA *is* a PvP environment. My fairly new PC got into a duel just last night with a PC that was probably twice his level. Now, I'm not going to say that the PvP was brought on solely because the other player knew I was half the level of his PC, because I don't believe that to be true, yet at the same time I bet if my PC was 5th level that PvP probably wouldn't have happened. It's a LOT easier to pick a fight when you perceive a strong chance of winning, and for my part I fought knowing I had a strong chance of losing (and of course I did lose, the higher level PC almost *always* wins in PvP). Why do I bring this up? You say you don't need to level up to 3rd to RP right, I say BS. By rights I should have backed down from the PvP and I suspect most players would have, simply because I was only 2nd level (and had just barely made that). Being 1st and 2nd level limits your RP greatly in a PvP environment.

The only reason it's an OOC desire to get out of 1st level is because the leveling mechanic itself is OOC, in other words it's OOC to level at all, and D&D requires you to have a lot of hitpoints to start acting bravely.

Here's another way to look at it. You've put a ton of work into ALFA AL, probably more than anyone. Do you really want ALFA NWN2 to end up exactly like ALFA NWN1 did with a bunch of empty servers? Because that is where we'll head at this rate, a handful of entrenched PC's at high level who only play in DM'ed sessions, and at the same time no reason at all to play ALFA at low level and especially as a new player who doesn't know how to survive the server. An all but dead project. We've been there once (though NWN1 has had a mild resurrection since dropping to two active servers), apparently we're willing to do it again, because that will be the long term result of the in game trends I've seen already.

[HATEFACE]

Well, I like permadeath too, but there's "requires tactics" difficult and there's "doomed to die unless all you do is stay in safe areas" difficult. Make things too hard and it's a disincentive to adventure at all, which is *exactly* what I see in game, people standing around in safe areas emoting once per minute to trigger the RP increment and taking no risks to their PC's at all. What a dull world we've become already, and that dullness is a result of server design. My desire to continue playing wanes with each passing week. Thank the gods I have some fun peeps to rp with.

That's not what I see but I roleplay with a group. Even if I wasn't involved with a group, fuck em', I'll go out and risk death if need be. Continue to try and encurage them to go out. Maybe they'll warm up, or perhaps you can express your OOC concerns with them OOCly. The issue with risk vs reward has been expresed and hopefully it will change so it will be worth going out again for some people.

I don't care *how* PC's get to 3rd level. Statics seem like an obvious way especially since doing a static in a party is the closest thing to playing D&D that ALFA offers outside of a DM'ed session. If you don't think it's IC to play D&D in ALFA, in other words for D&D PC's to go adventuring, well that is a common ALFA misperception I must admit. Give people a lever in the start merchant room to go straight to 3rd if that makes you feel better. Scale RP XP to be very high for 1st - 3rd and then taper to very low or even zero. Make it possible to pay for training to gain xp for gp at low levels. Increase combat xp at low levels to encourage more adventuring outside of statics. Do whatever you want but make it easier to get to 3rd level.

Hello! I purposed that everyone starts at third level! "Give people a lever in the start merchant room to go straight to 3rd if that makes you feel better." - Mulu Gawd! You know what would be better? Giving players the option to start at level -1 They'll have to work their way up to 0.

Also, ALFA *is* a PvP environment. My fairly new PC got into a duel just last night with a PC that was probably twice his level. Now, I'm not going to say that the PvP was brought on solely because the other player knew I was half the level of his PC, because I don't believe that to be true, yet at the same time I bet if my PC was 5th level that PvP probably wouldn't have happened. It's a LOT easier to pick a fight when you perceive a strong chance of winning, and for my part I fought knowing I had a strong chance of losing (and of course I did lose, the higher level PC almost *always* wins in PvP). Why do I bring this up? You say you don't need to level up to 3rd to RP right, I say BS. By rights I should have backed down from the PvP and I suspect most players would have, simply because I was only 2nd level (and had just barely made that). Being 1st and 2nd level limits your RP greatly in a PvP environment.

Its not a PvP server, or at least it shouldn't be, in some rare instances, it may be expected if there is a valid reason to lead up too it. You retards just don't know what proper social character conflict is any more and that is a roleplay issue and not entirely a technical one. Paladins bumrushing evil-doers and vise versa. Highbies battling lowbies for dominance. pah! Unrealistic human expectations, all across the board. May you all relearn roleplay 101 or read a good novel because this isn't Dragon Balls Z. And get used to your new place on the lowbie heirachy or get the fuck out. And Mulu, I'm critisicisng you in any way this is a more of a generalization and given the rants its pretty much verified.

[witch]

See the sh*t awful response to witch above. Sorry witch.

simple answer back. ill ignore your post from now on since i dont see much constructive things in them either..

[HATEFACE]

See the sh*t awful response to witch above. Sorry witch.

simple answer back. ill ignore your post from now on since i dont see much constructive things in them either..

Your prerogative, sir. I'm just glad you don't ignore me entirely.

How about this for constructive? Put moar mundane l00t (swords, gold, gems, lowbie heals, lowbie scrolls, etc.) inside of caves, mainly near teh back where them there boss monsters is thus makin' that there effort to be gettin' some worth it.

[Mitch]

Actually Helios... that's a greta idea, in my opinion anyway.

It doesn't have to be anything economy breaking, but if you take the much pit for example, where there are bodies and broken wagons theoretically dragged inside by raiding goblins, a few simple, mundane sellable items would actually make more rp sense than the perpetually empty containers.

[Mulu]

And get used to your new place on the lowbie heirachy or get the f*sk out.

Dude, my highest level ALFA PC was 5th, and that was in NWN1 after 3 years of gaming. I've always been on the low end of the hierarchy.

And yes all those raided caravans should result is some sort of loot.

[Cynon]

To make an apology, the statics in rivermoot are to be honest, a piece of piss.

Lol, walk up a hill and back, here you go son, lots of gold!

now what next? Walk up another hill and back! Here you go, more gold...

You know I think those two hills were a bit easy, i got a nice tall one next and the path bends a bit eh, your gonna be rich after this one lad.

I'm totally gonna have to psyche myself for this last hill. I may not come back alive!

ALFA's NWN2 hill building is going splendidly and that is coming from the guy who climbed out of an air balloon ship's wreckage in the sword mountains and had to figure out a way home through all the giants.

[indio]

To make an apology, the statics in rivermoot are to be honest, a piece of piss.

This thread is well past its used-by date.

[Rick7475]

Cynon, I'll check my PM box for your suggestions on what good statics are, since the TSM ones aren't up to your standards.

I have written over a hundred statics, BTW, so they better be good and original.