Spear and Shield

This is a general open discussion for all ALFA, Neverwinter Nights, and Dungeons & Dragons topics.

Moderator: ALFA Administrators

Mikayla
Valsharess of ALFA
Posts: 3707
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Qu'ellar Faen Tlabbar, Noble Room 7, Menzoberranzan, NorthUnderdark

Spear and Shield

Post by Mikayla »

Would it be possible to add short-spears or whatever D&D uses for one-handed spears, to NWN2? I ask, because as I understand it right now, all spears are two-handed weapons and the only way to use one with a shield is to take the Monkey Grip feat, which would be ok, except that even with the Monkey Grip feat, you take a -2 attack penalty. Given that a spear only does 1-8 points of damage, it would not seem unbalancing to allow it to be used one-handed.

And, well, the spear & shield combination is pretty much a classic weapon combination - from ancient Greece, to Rome, to the middle-ages, people fought with spear and shield for thousands of years. It seems like it should be more accessable, and not so penalized. Maybe there are game-considerations I am unaware of, but, so far as I can tell, it seems silly not to allow the spear & shield combination (and like I said, I know about Monkey Grip but that requires a entire feat - which actually I could live with - but results in still taking a -2 penalty which seems silly).

Thoughts?
ALFA1-NWN1: Sheyreiza Valakahsa
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
User avatar
Brokenbone
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 5771
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 1:07 am
Location: London, Ontario, Canada

Post by Brokenbone »

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wea ... scriptions
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wea ... shortspear
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#spear

Shortspear and shield is definitely a normal D&D combo. Shortspears are cheaper, lighter, do 1d6 damage, and x2 crit. Still a "simple" weapon, like its larger counterpart.

Don't know how hard it is to add more weapons, maybe less hard if several models for the normal spear were simply recycled... but collected as if a new base item. Possibly the model collectors would try to stick to the theme of "this looks shorter than most spears." Just a suggestion, based on how it would've worked in NWN1.
ALFA NWN2 PCs: Rhaggot of the Bruised-Eye, and Bamshogbo
ALFA NWN1 PC: Jacobim Foxmantle
ALFA NWN1 Dead PC: Jon Shieldjack

DMA Staff
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Post by Zelknolf »

Brokenbone wrote:Don't know how hard it is to add more weapons, maybe less hard if several models for the normal spear were simply recycled... but collected as if a new base item. Possibly the model collectors would try to stick to the theme of "this looks shorter than most spears." Just a suggestion, based on how it would've worked in NWN1.
The PnP spear is already substantially larger than anything shipped with NWN1 or 2 -- I think we'd be safe just recycling the models.

I think you'd be getting yourself into a little trouble if you just make the normal spears one-handed, because then you have 1d8 damage and x3 crits on a one-handed simple weapon (while that particular damage/crit combo is generally reserved for martial weapons or two-handed weapons)
Mikayla
Valsharess of ALFA
Posts: 3707
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Qu'ellar Faen Tlabbar, Noble Room 7, Menzoberranzan, NorthUnderdark

Post by Mikayla »

Well, just a thought, but we could use the normal spear models, and explain the difference in damage (d6 v d 8) as saying thats the difference between using it one handed and two handed. I don't know how complicated the bastard sword scripts are, are how much work it would take to modify them for spears, but in theory, maybe we could use the same sort of deal for them (no Exotic weapon feat needed though) - so, a spear equipped one-handed would do D6, and a spear equipped 2-handed would do D 8? Just a thought - I can't script so, I don't really know whats possible.

Zelk:
I think you'd be getting yourself into a little trouble if you just make the normal spears one-handed, because then you have 1d8 damage and x3 crits on a one-handed simple weapon (while that particular damage/crit combo is generally reserved for martial weapons or two-handed weapons)
Fair enough - maybe just make 1-handed use a D6 weapon, but use the same models?

Or maybe, I am thinking out loud here:

Bastard Sword 1-handed requires Exotic Weapon Prof.
Bastard Sword 2-handed requires Martial Weapon Prof.

What about this:

Spear 1-handed requires Martial Weapon Prof.
Spear 2-handed requires Simple Weapon Prof.

That makes the Spear 1-handed basically the same as the Battle Axe (D8 damage, X3 Crit., Martial Weapon)
Last edited by Mikayla on Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ALFA1-NWN1: Sheyreiza Valakahsa
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
User avatar
Munmun
Dire Badger
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:45 am
Location: Eastern U.S.
Contact:

Post by Munmun »

That would be quite cool.
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Post by Zelknolf »

Mikayla wrote:Fair enough - maybe just make 1-handed use a D6 weapon, but use the same models?
This is pretty much what I would hope we'd end up with. I haven't fiddled with new base items (which this would be) in NWN2, but if it's like NWN1, that would be a fairly simple change.

(could probably even show you how, though I was planning on holding off on my second attempt to make NWN2 run on my horribly underequipped computer until the weekend, so I lack the ability to test any reccomendations/guidance I might offer until then.)
mr duncan
Owlbear
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:36 pm

Post by mr duncan »

Mikayla wrote:
Or maybe, I am thinking out loud here:

Bastard Sword 1-handed requires Exotic Weapon Prof.
Bastard Sword 2-handed requires Martial Weapon Prof.

What about this:

Spear 1-handed requires Martial Weapon Prof.
Spear 2-handed requires Simple Weapon Prof.

Monkey Grip will give you what you want.


J
User avatar
Munmun
Dire Badger
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:45 am
Location: Eastern U.S.
Contact:

Post by Munmun »

mr duncan wrote:

Monkey Grip will give you what you want.


J
Epic fail.
Mikayla
Valsharess of ALFA
Posts: 3707
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Qu'ellar Faen Tlabbar, Noble Room 7, Menzoberranzan, NorthUnderdark

Post by Mikayla »

mr. duncan:
There is already a feat to use the spear one handed, monkey grip.
Yeah...I mentioned that twice in my first post. But the monkey grip feat, as I understand it, leaves you taking a -2 on all attacks. So, to use a spear one-handed, not only do you need a specific feat (Monkey Grip) you also take a -2 on all your attacks. Which is why I delved into thinking about other solutions.
ALFA1-NWN1: Sheyreiza Valakahsa
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
mr duncan
Owlbear
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:36 pm

Post by mr duncan »

Damn. Im such a bumbler. I just read the links and opened my mouth.
Mikayla
Valsharess of ALFA
Posts: 3707
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Qu'ellar Faen Tlabbar, Noble Room 7, Menzoberranzan, NorthUnderdark

Post by Mikayla »

No worries - we still love you!
ALFA1-NWN1: Sheyreiza Valakahsa
NWN2: Layla (aka Aliyah, Amira, Snake and others) and Vellya
NWN1-WD: Shein'n Valakasha
User avatar
Mulu
Mental Welfare Queen
Posts: 2065
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:25 am

Post by Mulu »

*tries to picture a monkey-gripped greataxe and tower shield*

Naw, too goofy.
Neverwinter Connections Dungeon Master since 2002! :D
Click for the best roleplaying!

On NWVault by me:
X-INV, X-COM, War of the Worlds, Lantan University.
User avatar
Vendrin
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 9594
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:48 am
Location: Nevada

Post by Vendrin »

Mulu wrote:*tries to picture a monkey-gripped greataxe and tower shield*

Naw, too goofy.
Dooooooooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
-Vendrin
<fluff> vendrin is like a drug
User avatar
Demson
Retired
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:10 pm

Post by Demson »

Dual-wield halberds.

Would work well with whirlwind attack, really.
PR efforteer, OAS2 DM, builder.
User avatar
JaydeMoon
Fionn In Disguise
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:03 pm
Location: Paradise
Contact:

Post by JaydeMoon »

I'm totally gonna do that.
<Burt>: two dudes are better than one.

DMG v.3.5 p.6, 8, and 14

BEATZ
Post Reply