Community opinion poll: Planetouched as playable races 1/2

[JaydeMoon]

Good drow are pre 3d Ed. Check the copyright on The Crystal Shard.

[psycho_leo]

Ban gnomes. And Jayde's mom.

[ThinkTank]

what's wrong with Elves/Dwarves/Humans/Halflings and Wizards/Fighters/Thieves/Clerics

Effectivly that every single form of those has been combined, rewriten and worn down to a stub by most dedlicated players of the genre. Mastering the same thing by constant repitition is for EFF PEE ESS games.

Gnomes are KOS as soon as I see tham in the monster manual.

[coach]

what's wrong with Elves/Dwarves/Humans/Halflings and Wizards/Fighters/Thieves/Clerics

Effectivly that every single form of those has been combined, rewriten and worn down to a stub by most dedlicated players of the genre. Mastering the same thing by constant repitition is for EFF PEE ESS games.

Gnomes are KOS as soon as I see tham in the monster manual.

you misunderstand, i like Ed's Faerun, not WOTC's Faerun and so that is why i don't like the new stuff

a tiefling in Eberron would be fine with me and I'd suggest anyone to go for it

i don't mind anyone wanting to roleplay any of the new stuff

MY vision of Faerun just doesn't contain any of it

all the added stuff is retconned (force-fed) in as always being there - no matter that it is now "canon" because WOTC official stamp is on it -"canon" doesn't mean the same as "original"

gimme "original"

saying all that i do think the 3/3.5 ruleset is substantially better that the old

but just for arguments sake...

Elves/Dwarves/Humans/Halflings x
Wizards/Fighters/Clerics/Rogues x
potential multi-classes x
potential mixed races x
LG/NG/CG/LE/NE/CE/LN/TN/CN x
different deity worshiped (if any) x
gender x
n (where n= number of different personalities)
equals a guesstimated 21,285,775,937 different roleplaying scenarios

so I just don't see how one can't live without a candy-apple skinned genasi with molten lava for hair in their version of Faerun

at the absolute worst-case scenario, at least if we have to have them, let them be monsters/NPCs

[Burt]

Ban gnomes. And Jayde's mom.

Oh snap!

[Mulu]

call me conservative, 2nd edition, old school, TSR-apologist, traditional, WOTC-hater, whatever

just say no to tiefling, aasimar, genasi, dragonborn, warlock, sorceror, good drow, prestige classes, non-LG paladins, eladrin, and any other retconned/new/borrowed "canon" races/classes

(WOTC: oh, uhh, yeah we haven't had these until now but they've always been in Faerun, you just haven't, uhh, heard about em, yeah, that's it)

if it wasn't in Ed's original plans for Faerun (when he had it named "A Land Far Away" by the way) then punt it

what's wrong with Elves/Dwarves/Humans/Halflings and Wizards/Fighters/Thieves/Clerics

Hey, I still prefer 1st edition rules.

You could stick ALFA in amber and keep it there as preferring one older version of FR, but you'll kill the inflow of new players. Without new players, the project dies. Simple as that.

As for the artistic license in the elemental races, is it possible to simply roll up a human with tinted skin and then apply the race modifiers through a hak? That seems easier than trying to change the appearance, IMO, though now you are creating actual tech work for implementation which is to be avoided for obvious reasons. Then again, you can always just wear a hat. If ALFA can survive pink-haired hin, it can survive genasi.

Anyway, I voted yes for the obvious reason that these choices are currently canon, will be expected by new players, and the game requires change to stay alive.

[Zelknolf]

If ALFA can survive pink-haired hin, it can survive genasi.

You realise, of course, that an argument that contains a "[blah] is like Millia!" is a case against it, right?

[psycho_leo]

If ALFA can survive pink-haired hin, it can survive genasi.

You realise, of course, that an argument that contains a "[blah] is like Millia!" is a case against it, right?

ZOMG! Pink haired tieflings!

[Vaelahr]

There's lots of canon stuff that isn't represented in NWN or ALFA. Being canon shouldn't automatically demand implementation and inclusion. Just because we can't play it, see it, kill it, or travel there, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in our gameworld. We do what we can. And I'd like to see what we do, done well.

These races being packaged with NWN2 were to sell the game. I don't think the devs put them in there with roleplaying in mind. Not RP the way ALFA defines it. They're bells & whistles. Stat candy.

We're able to play a bunch races and subraces with a bunch of Faerunian cultures to draw from. We've got a ridiculously large pantheon to choose from. Various classes each with limitless potential to be creative with. Couple all that with our imaginations and willingness to truly roleplay and we have a gameworld that is more than enough to be creatively satisfying.

So my vote is NO but I certainly wouldn't throw a fit if we include them in the future. I politely disagree with others on the other side of the debate. I'd like to see work concentrated in other areas of our game.

[Zelknolf]

These races being packaged with NWN2 were to sell the game. I don't think the devs put them in there with roleplaying in mind. Not RP the way ALFA defines it. They're bells & whistles. Stat candy.

To this I would offer three responses...
Re: Developer Intentions
I'll restrain my inner structuralist from a tangent about authorial intent. Anyhow, the game itself wasn't designed for persistent worlds or roleplaying as a general statement, and this was no secret during its development. The theory with NWN2 was to compete with Elder Scrolls 4, which meant they had to provide compelling character building (something that D&D is good at in the first place) and picturesque gameplay (which we can see upon booting up the game.) Anything past that is room for us to be happy, as we roleplayers don't seem to be a large enough demographic to make the development of such quality of software already tailored to our needs a profitable enterprise. Still, we seem to find joy in playing the drinking habits of dwarves, the natural empathy of elves, the oddly turnip-based cooking of gnomes, and whathaveyou, despite that all of them were only made to slaughter things.

Re: Selling the Game
A sizeable part of the argument for planetouched races is to sell ALFA to potential new players. Those people we scare off tend to be frightened by a bad experience with exclusion or for our reputation of exclusion. Giving tangible evidence to this would hurt our case on that front.

Re: "stat candy"
I would say that +2 con is vastly more useful than +2 wis/cha, especially in a point buy system (as the +2 makes a 16 in that ability score a very cheap investment (6 points v. 10 points). However, spellcasters recieve intensely diminishing returns when investing in their spellcasting ability scores [wis for druids/clerics, cha for sorcs, as long as I've made the aasimar reference] after about 15 or 16 at level 1 [One who plans to put their ability score point into their spellcasting ability every 4 levels would be able to start with 15 and never have maximum spell levels cause a problem.], while improving constitution offers rewards constant with its improvement. I would offer an exception, in that paladins/blackguards also benefit in constant, combat-useable ways from charisma, though +1 hp/level and +1 fort saves seems to outweigh +1 to all saves and a bonus to their sub-par turning abilities.)

[ThinkTank]

Humans get a free feat, and a pile of skill points. The free feat alone is worth more than many of the dowhatsits and go faster stripes on many other races. Just depends on what you want to play.

A skill'd up rogue with crazy two weapon sneak attack feats would do better as a human, and just buy some darkvision item. Especialy at lower levels where you need to grub every point and feat possible so you dont die (of boredom at least).

Or say you want a psion build that makes peoples heads explode with a failed will save. Elan would be perfect, particularly as their special stuff sucks up power points which a psion would have bags off.

Playing around a bit with stats and numbers is not everyones idea of fun, but having the muscle to back up those RP fantasys is worth it. Air genesi sorcerers would be more fun of course if there was a decent Z axis to move along, but eh.


CONCLUSION! = race is linked with class (unless people like playing crippled PCs)

[Amar]

If ALFA can survive pink-haired hin, it can survive genasi.

You realise, of course, that an argument that contains a "[blah] is like Millia!" is a case against it, right?

ZOMG! Pink haired tieflings!

You idiots! You've invoked the curse! Now s/he'll post!