How do we feel about playing and DMing in ALFA?

ThinkTank · Post by **ThinkTank** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:49 pm

Adventuaring at level 1-3 = corpse

Ergo: starting above level 1-3 = moar adventurers & less NPC-PCs

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:30 pm

Zelknolf wrote:And you can still RP as much back story as you'd like at level 1, if that's your fancy.

Unfortunately you *also* have to roleplay the fact that you can be killed by a chicken or a rat. I find that particular roleplay requirement to be distasteful at best. It's a big part of the reason I haven't gotten back into playing in ALFA NWN1. In ALFA NWN2, I'm hoping to be able to at least party up with other noobs.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:24 pm

Mulu wrote:Unfortunately you *also* have to roleplay the fact that you can be killed by a chicken or a rat. I find that particular roleplay requirement to be distasteful at best.

I would certainly be in favor of adding as a NWN2 server approval standard that no standard chicken or rat be allowed to do more than 1 hp of damage on an attack, I think that would probably go some distance towards alleviating the OOC'ness of the poultry/rodent death. Seriously, though- a lot of this is module design- the OAS2 is up now, and 003 should be up again shortly, I recommend anyone who thinks level one PCs are unplayable to try these out before presuming that there will be fields of bodies around the chicken coop. If static questgivers are sending 1st level PCs to their continual death on the beta servers, make a bug report about it or talk to the builders, and it can get fixed, either by altering the quest, or giving fairer warning in the description.

We're also having scripted RP XP for NWN2, that's awarded on login even without DM assist, so feeling like taking your chances with the rats shouldn't feel like the only way to level, either.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:54 pm

Awesome.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:25 pm

Vis the "Level 1 is a newbie who should be easily killed" or "Level one is a trained warrior" debate:

From the DMG (page 133)

Typical Soldier
Most soldiers are 1st level Warriors who... (equipment description). These soldiers are professionals, or experienced conscripts from harsh lands where conflict is common.

It seems odd to me that these fellows from harsh lands suddenly become so vulnerable when they leave them. Perhaps the conflict that is common is actually conflict with marauding butterflies or dormice, as how else can it be explained that these experienced fellows fall over so easily at the claws of a housecat or avenging beetle?

And, bear in mind, growing up during - and surviving in - these conflicts only qualifies these folk to be warriors, which is to say they don't even have the training of a level 1 PC Fighter (or other PC class).

***

A level 1 fighter isn't a raw recruit. He has had training, and combat experience. Trying to explaining your fighting background away whilst having to hide in the tavern in case of badger attack is a little embarassing.

HEEGZ · Post by **HEEGZ** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:43 pm

Very well said Mayhem. Also AL hits the nail on the head that alot of the problems people are talking about is poor campaign design. Hopefully that stuff gets weeded out this time around during the beta.

I haven't read all 7 pages so I'm not sure what this has to do with DM/playing... Just wanted to post a quick reply.

Nate

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:28 pm

Mayhem wrote:It seems odd to me that these fellows from harsh lands suddenly become so vulnerable when they leave them. Perhaps the conflict that is common is actually conflict with marauding butterflies or dormice, as how else can it be explained that these experienced fellows fall over so easily at the claws of a housecat or avenging beetle?

In their home lands, warriors come in really big groups. 100 level 1 warriors > most stuff. If they've all got ranged weapons, I bet they could take down level 10 PCs while only suffering a few casualties. Maybe not even take casualties, if terrain and surprise is on their side.

AL's point about mod design seems the best answer to the housecat death, also. If the NWN2 death system functions as the NWN1 one did, any creature that couldn't do more than 1 damage would be unable to kill a PC, thanks to the "disabled" state being represented by 1 hp, but they would be able to leave scratches that would make that PC inclined to swear in innovative ways.

psycho_leo · Post by **psycho_leo** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:43 pm

There's no real way to justify a healthy, trained and armed warrior being mangled by Mickey Mouse. It just doesn't happen. The main problem we had was wacko creature design, which can be solved by doing it right from the start as Acadius said. I suppose we still can have some poor wizard beat to death by some angry chicken, but it should be a rare enough occurrance, that would not be a real concern. Ultimately it's the price we pay for playing without a DM, that normally wouldn't ask for attack rolls because a PC is in the mood for chicken soup.

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:02 pm

psycho_leo wrote:There's no real way to justify a healthy, trained and armed warrior being mangled by Mickey Mouse.

Shows how much you know! Mickey Mouse is a wiz 17!

He'll wail of the banshee your ass!

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:12 am

Actually I'm pretty sure he was a sorcerer's apprentice who couldn't control an animated broom.

Inwintersshadow · Post by **Inwintersshadow** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:19 am

Mickey Mouse is animated???

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:56 am

Zelknolf wrote:If the NWN2 death system functions as the NWN1 one did, any creature that couldn't do more than 1 damage would be unable to kill a PC.

1 hp of damage is supposed to represent harm that could actually kill you, and even being dropped to 1 hp but somehow not going below that is certainly risking death from something else. Small animals shouldn't even be able to do 1 hp of damage, nor should they be worth any xp.

Zel wrote:Shows how much you know! Mickey Mouse is a wiz 17!

I think you need to turn in your hat Zel.

Magonushi · Post by **Magonushi** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:19 am

Mulu wrote:
Zelknolf wrote:And you can still RP as much back story as you'd like at level 1, if that's your fancy.
Unfortunately you *also* have to roleplay the fact that you can be killed by a chicken or a rat. I find that particular roleplay requirement to be distasteful at best. It's a big part of the reason I haven't gotten back into playing in ALFA NWN1. In ALFA NWN2, I'm hoping to be able to at least party up with other noobs.

Mulu, this is actually why I haven't played ALFA in over a year and a half. Any time I try to actually go adventuring - I know I know I must be mad - I feel that I have two options, team up with a level 8+ to do the adventuring for me or, alternatively, die. At the end of the day I don't consider either option fun, and if I wanted to RP a non-combatant I would just play the SIMs. Say anything you want about the RPing significance of being able to be murdered by a plop of pigeon poop, but at the end of the day it still isn't fun.

And my bet is it won't change, and that's probably why I won't be around ALFA after my fifth ALFA2 character. It's not that I don't love RPing, I do, it's just that I hate going through the drudgery of level one that much.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:17 pm

Magonushi wrote:I feel that I have two options, team up with a level 8+ to do the adventuring for me

And that's assuming the level 8+ even would team up with you. After all, they don't know you and therefore have no IC reason to be with you.

Spider Jones · Post by **Spider Jones** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:51 pm

Most animals should simply flee in a panic when attacked, set up the AI properly and there ain't be an issue. Yes, that allows for PCs to slaughter them without much difficulty as the animals are likely to get snagged on terrain, but do as Mulu suggests and cut out the xp reward and probably most of any monetary benefit (unless the creatures actually have a chance of escape).