What people think of ALFA

[Stormbringer]

Ok. I was checking out the NWN2 forums and I found a few post to share with fellow ALFA members.

1:
Not a good place if you like to play AD&D by the book.. Rules are enforced and/or ignored according to the DM's whims and personal feelings.
Alfa has lots of favoritism and a feeling of being on the outside of an old clique of friends.
Being unique or creative is actively frowned on as is acheiving heroic status, travelling the realms, and generally doing anything autonmously. Other characters will rat you out for OCC behavior, DMs will kill you whenever and wherever the mood strikes them, and there are so many ways to get banned..their are fifty pages of forum posts if not more just for that topic.
You can expect being under constant scrutiny from the first day you arrive..they will lie in wait for you to screw up; and bam..you are banned.

2:Alfa were a great place, but thats in the past... The place is deserted pale shadow of what it once was, Alfa lost most of its creative people, builders, coders etc, and now all that is left is those that have backstabbed their way to the top ranks... As a long term member of Alfa, im sad to see this old project become what it is... I strongly urge people to think twice before investing time in Alfa... One of the resent events that happened, is the "theft" of a module, perhaps Alfas best designed and coded were mirror copied with the aproval of the Admin, and then the Head DM that built this place and kept it going for several years removed from his own Module in Alfa...

I thought it was funny how people who used to play in ALFA have problems with ALFA. I used to play in ALFA and even DM'ed as well.

There is problems with the higher ups. They have a tendency to jump the gun and accuse people of PG'ing. The higher ups need to look at a person's ability to RP instead of the level they are. Take myself for instance. I know a few people out there remember me spending 10 to 15 hours a day RP'ing and exploring on TLR. I had a lot of DM attention. I leveled rather fast but nothing was ever said about it because it was legal XP. Mostly 75% RP XP and 25% monster XP. Gold I aquired was from drops. And if I felt the gold was to much I said something to the DM's. If I encountered something I thought was illegal I mentioned it to a DM. We had great DM's on TLR. One's who was understanding and did their best to
involve every PC in the quest. If a DM logged on and there was several PC's sitting around a fire RP'ing they got xp for the RP. I have played on several servers that you didn't get anything from RP'ing. I spent many a nights on Shadowdale and got nothing. WD and BG the same way. It makes me mad to no end to see great RP'ers get questioned about their level and gold and other who can't not RP at all get away with ubber levels and equipment because they are friends with the higher ups. Their have been quite a few I have seen since 02 when I started playing in ALFA.

I saw a great RP'er get questioned about his level and gold in 04. That was the downfall for me. He was run through the ringer but didn't get banned. It was sad to see the ADMIN question a good RP'er for valid xp and gold.

I have even seen DM's try to kill off PC's just because they was cleaning up the server.( stacking wolf pelts in a pile on DF instead of having them piled all over the place causing lag). The DM spawned wave after wave of creatures and NPC's on us. Within 5 minutes we gained about 1500 xp. I don't remember the DM at the time. I confronted him in the DM forums about this. I had to get another DM to take the XP away. While on a cross server quest I had several DM's take XP from me just from random spawns I met along the roads.

I am not trying to make myself out to look like a perfect individual but if a great RP'er gains levels faster than a so-so RP'er, then so be it.

[indio]

ALFA is known to have been around a long time, and to have excellent servers...two things worth continuing. We've been roundly despised by pretty much anyone who's been rejected by us (thousands) and by most munchkin gamers (admittedly we've got our own versions of those).

There's good reason to dislike us, and poor reason to dislike us in equel measure. Best bet is not to pay any attention to either side and simply enjoy your time in our community.

[Lusipher]

Theres a lot of things that have happened in the past that ALFA shouldnt be proud of. A lot of former players who were here a long time and players who stayed only a little bit have had issues with our project. Its one thing I hope to change with NWN2. I cant control the Dms or Admin on how they do their jobs, but we can try and learn from what players are saying about us. We can look to see if we really do have these problems and their not just ramblings made up by disgruntled ex Alfans.

Instead of bashing those folks for making those comments we should learn from it. We are looked upon as an elitist cliquish place. Its true to some degree and we can only change that by changing how we act toward new players and how we represent ourselves on the forums and IRC. I have seen tons of things lately in IRC from 2 individuals that really would turn a new player off imediately. We seem to think "screw them we have been here for X amount of time..conform to us" and thats just stupid and drives players off.

When it comes to our DMs doing things they shouldnt....well thats up to the HDMs and the DMA. They should be trying to train these Dms instead of just throwing them into their place. We had in the past tried to have Dm training, but Im not sure its been done in sometime. Personally, I think some DMs have a "us vs. them" mentality toward players and thats also wrong. DMs need to be guides and allow the stories to flow due to the actions of the players not the overzealous DM who wants players to do things his way just because he holds the DM wand.

As for the Admin...I personally feel that almost every Admin position as of right now have people in place that really can change things for the positive. For once in a long while almost all the Admin actually like each other and want to work together and get things done. In the past that couldnt be said as we saw so much cockblocking and spite. Hopefully, with a new NWN2 project getting ready to go Live we will continue to see the current Admin doing admirable jobs.

We can learn from the past, but the project has to want to learn. They havent always wanted to learn or care what others in the NWN community think. Its time we did or really all the PR in the world wont change things and players will continue to leave and speak ill of ALFA.

[Stormbringer]

Alas I have a great respect for what Alby and others started so many years ago. And I have to agree some rules need to be in place to control things.

I think some DMs have a "us vs. them" mentality toward players and thats also wrong. DMs need to be guides and allow the stories to flow due to the actions of the players not the overzealous DM who wants players to do things his way just because he holds the DM wand.

I have to agree with the above statement Danubus. On TLR the DM's were there for the players. We were not forced to follow NPC's around as had happened on DF on several occasions.

We (as a NWN2 PW) need to grasp the strong points of our ideas and let the pettiness of others actions lead us into a better ALFA.

[Veilan]

Instead of bashing those folks for making those comments we should learn from it.

A curious statement to make for you. Perhaps you should just own up to it?

Would certainly get you more goodwill for your new position, at least from me, instead of skitting around the hot pie of you being responsible for your share of, let's say, ALFA-critical posts in other communities.

Your past is your past, so own it, even if your opinions have now changed.

[Lusipher]

Do not doubt Im not real proud of some of the things Ive said in the past, but I have for sometime wanted things to change on the forums and IRC. We have all been guilty of doing some pretty bone head things and it hasnt made us look all that wonderful. As I said, I want to change our image and one reason I wanted the PR job is to help doing that. You have every right to be skeptical, but the past is past. If I didnt think this place could be better off and be a viable place to play in NWN2 I would have left this project long ago and played elsewhere where communties are a lot more friendly and the DMs/Builders/Project leaders actually work well together for the greater benefit of their projects.

The project just needs to grow up, personally. All of us.

One thing:

Would certainly get you more goodwill for your new position, at least from me, instead of skitting around the hot pie of you being responsible for your share of, let's say, ALFA-critical posts in other communities.

I will be critical when it deserves it. Sometimes a good kick in the ass is what a person or place needs. My position requires me to be the face of ALFA and promote the place, but I will not lie or deny that things have occurred here. If I get to a point where I feel that ALFA doesnt want to change its image and show the NWN community it can be different then I will step down and leave. Im doing my part to help out and will try my best to get us new players and answer questions from those in the NWN community, but I wont deny our faults either.

[Veilan]

Then, without cynicism, let me wish you the best of success in that endeavour. We could use some good PR, and while ALFA definetely has some problems, an infusion of fresh blood and ideas could always shake the place up a bit.

Then again, who was that who quoted that the only thing we hate more than a stale game is a change to it...?

[AlmightyTDawg]

A long time ago... *pulls up a foot stool, leans back into the grand chair* ALFA had a lot more variance and a lot of favoritism. Having only ever played on a handful of servers, and rarely with DM attention, and not in the past year, I can't speak as to the favoritism now. But what's difficult in relying on individual posts, in any forum, is that you only ever get a single perspective. And rarely is that an astute, balanced perspective looking at the other side of the equation.

Take Storm's post 2 - I suspect it was with regards to SD, though maybe something else (the opinion has at least been expressed with regards to SD). While people can have beefs about the manner in which it was done - I express no opinion on the he-said, she-said - as perhaps one of the more consistent SD players in the span 30 to 12 months prior, I can unequivocally without the slightest bit of hesitation say that it was a desperately-needed move that came about 24 months too late. I'm not going to belabor the reasons, but the point is that any one individual perspective is going to be skewed, and aside from trying to make everyone happy (--> making no one happy) you're not going to avoid those sorts of things.

So back to the original point, which is that there's been a long shift in the works. It was meant to root out the personal whim on rules enforcement, meant to shine light on the blatant favoritism (or at least make it obvious) and at the same time protect DMs from accusations on the DM boards that they weren't doing things "the right way," seeing as there was no right way. It wasn't the culture here, and to be fair, a number of the steps in making it the culture haven't been the most sensitive. Entitlement abounds in many ways (e.g. Stormbringer's 2nd post) and any time someone digs their heels in, someone's gonna walk away peeved off.

But there are some pretty bright folks who've tried to learn from things. Variances in combat XP and "uber servers" is being standardized - room to be different, but not CR 7 goblin-different. A move towards dynamic populations rather than the oddities of static content, so that players can be free to do what they want. Giving DMs a consistent set of standards to follow and be free from criticism. Giving players the implicit shield of being able to know when a DM is talking out their arse. We're trying to eliminate the structural problems where players got caught in the crossfire. And it has been focused on one goal, which is "how does it play." We may be asking too much of our DMs to do so, but I'm not sure - we'll see it in practice.

But you'll never take out the human element - sometimes player-DM combos just won't jive. And players will rarely if ever be able to distinguish between outright bias and just a "tougher" DM. You'll never take out the politics - you can only hope to make the focus be about the game experience.

We're still stuck with the legacy of NWN1-Gone-Wild, and to my mind, some folks are more gung-ho about reeling that in than I am. I have little doubt that if NWN2 becomes a better MP platform, the fresh start will take us in a better direction.

[Veilan]

Indeed, the best bet we have is basing ALFA firmly on the rule of law, and not on the rule of the popularity of individuals, cliques or special interest groups.

I think we've made some advances on that front, and as seldom as I give out optimism or praise, I think things are looking to be further developing into that direction.

The animated corpses of the american founding fathers would smile proudly...

[fluffmonster]

I'm willing to take criticism from someone who I know cuz I know where they're coming from, even if I don't agree with what they have to say. Some of this stuff folks are saying, you don't know where its coming from. So, how are you gonna sort the real flaws from the stuff that doesn't even understand our perspective? Like for example, if you expect a static scripted world, having a DM around is going to seem like its real out of sorts even if they're not bad. That's very different from saying we need to do better sorting the bad DMs from the good, which is something we don't do much cuz it can be hard to keep DMs around and its wise to not quibble too much.

[Lusipher]

That's very different from saying we need to do better sorting the bad DMs from the good, which is something we don't do much cuz it can be hard to keep DMs around and its wise to not quibble too much.

thing is thats a poor excuse for keeping Dms. You want quality not quantity. Id take fewer Dms that do their jobs right than lots of Dms who play personal vendettas and dont know how to use the client etc. It all boils down to training and getting folks with the right temperment to do the job. We allowed in the past some Dms and HDMs to just hang on because they were there and that was silly move. Our previous DMA and the current one have so far done a decent job on cutting the fat from the steak, so to speak.

Ive been impressed with the actual improvements and work thats gotten done. I know its been slow going with the new game, but look forward to showing off what ALFans can do when they want to work together.

[Mulu]

You know, there are so few of us left anymore, and by "us" I mean rp'ers as opposed to just ALFAns, that every project is a shadow of its former self, and the numbers just keep going down. It's strange because I still think of NWN as a superior platform for D&D than a tabletop, yet our numbers only go down while the PnP community seems to remain pretty steady.

As the pools dry up we seem to be consolidating into a handful of rp-oriented projects. I've always said that the ALFA goal of recreating Faerun in whole was both unrealistic and the wrong direction. That pillar should be changed to "provide an enriching environment for rp." NWN2 may bring in some new players, or it may bring back some old players, but either way it will be far fewer players than the heyday of 2002. How well the project fares will in many respects be based on how well ALFA performs in its new incarnation, but even NWN2 will have a peak and then steady decline, almost certainly much sooner than NWN1 did.

[Lusipher]

I kinda agree with you on the having more fun with NWN than a PnP group. I am playing in two campaigns right now and Im seeing them be more combat oriented rather than roleplay. It just seems the Dms just want to drop spawns and let us do turn based combat. Bugs me to death cause Im use to real fun plots in ALFA. I actually miss Vorm Dming here because some of his plots were some of the best ran in ALFA.

Im really interested in the PnP games like Fantasy Grounds and D20 clients. Would be fun to try em out and from what everyones said who has used Fantasy Grounds is its really awesome.

[Reddfox321]

involve every PC in the quest. If a DM logged on and there was several PC's sitting around a fire RP'ing they got xp for the RP. I have played on several servers that you didn't get anything from RP'ing. I spent many a nights on Shadowdale and got nothing. WD and BG the same way. It makes me mad to no end to see great RP'ers get questioned about their level and gold and other who can't not RP at all get away with ubber levels and equipment because they are friends with the higher ups. Their have been quite a few I have seen since 02 when I started playing in ALFA.

This used to be my biggest issue, thankfully its been addressed (on SD, anyway).

One of the resent events that happened, is the "theft" of a module, perhaps Alfas best designed and coded were mirror copied with the aproval of the Admin, and then the Head DM that built this place and kept it going for several years removed from his own Module in Alfa...

About this...
Perhaps the execution was crass (I'm not going to get drawn into an argument on the morals of what happened) . However the results speak for themselves:
Regular updates
Over 15 PCs on server routinely
Heavy DM involvement and fluid plots

I can confidently say that my needs as a player on SD are now being met for the first time in well over a year.

[PensivesWetness]

everybody gets two of these, gets taught to wipe one and hold the other, but not always successfull or in tune to manners...

Does it really matter what those people said? F-No!

Let those individuals, ranging from the Missed & the Respected to the hated, jaded and otherwise fartnots rant, rave, communicate and felaciate as much as they feel the need. Regardless, of who they are to me (Missed? Respected? Hated? jaded?), it shouldn't change what we do, day to day to support ALFA...