Solar variation ruled out in global warming

[Nyarlathotep]

Interesting bit of trivia about Chernobyl, is that it has become something of a wildlife haven today. Sadly no radioactive zombies or giant ants, just a slightly increased rate of albinos.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... nobyl.html

[ayergo]

reverting back to the talk about nuclear power. The recent earthquake in Japan raised some points in nuclear safety. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717/ap_ ... apan_quake

Although this was just one of those days where things just went wrong for no reason, but it does bring to light that nuclear energy is still dangerous, and we should use caution when dealing with it. Not saying that we shouldn't use it, just a bit of caution

Dude, that was a fire in the transformers. You're going to have transformers no matter what electricity source you use, and they're going to be subject to fire.

Also a gallon of the water was lost. Big whoop. You would need a REALLY high concentration to do damage to anything. Heavy water happens!

[NickD]

Interesting bit of trivia about Chernobyl, is that it has become something of a wildlife haven today. Sadly no radioactive zombies or giant ants, just a slightly increased rate of albinos.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... nobyl.html

I read in a science magazine about half a dozen years ago that they studied rats from the exclusion zone and found that they were genetically more similar to voles than rats... That said, mutation isn't necessarily a bad thing... it's the basis of evolution after all.

[fluffmonster]

If you just properly price the right to emit carbon into the atmosphere, I can guarantee a lot of options that don't necessarily look feasible now will all the sudden seem very economical.

Step one is to stop giving subsidies to fossil fuel companies, particularly coal. There is absolutely no economic sense in it, its just taking from our collective pocket and giving it to a very few people.

Step two is cap-and-trade on carbon. And not some stupid cap like the European market has which is so loose and full of holes its like trying to bail water with a strainer. Has to a be a real cap determined scientifically, and it needs to be global.

That's it. Think of all the stuff like CAFE rules that wouldn't be needed any more.

Not only that, people would actually make incomes from the new value created in carbon emission management and other energy ventures.

If we were really forward-looking, we'd put a lot more effort into fusion. It is the answer to all our energy dreams.

[ayergo]

If we were really forward-looking, we'd put a lot more effort into fusion. It is the answer to all our energy dreams.

Much is currently being done there:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4629239.stm

Though no one has been able to get a net gain on a large scale yet. The system is just too unpredictable so far, but this generator hopes to be the one that does it.

The problem is that if this one fails, the future of fusion energy is likely bleak, as few investors will want to gamble on it.

[Zakharra]

What I find interesting is that not a single nuclear facility has started new construction since January, 1977. 30 years. The political blowback from the partial meltdown at Three Mile Island in 1979 has made building new plants almost impossible. It took 24 years to bring the last reactor online in 1996. On top of that, the last oil refinery built in the US was 31 years ago, back in 1976. One has to ask why given the blow to alternative energy like nuclear just 3 years later.

US Population in 1976: 218 Million

US Population in 2006: 300 Million

As for space-based solar I just can't imagine it being safe, reliable or feasible.

Kate

A large part of the reason there are no new nuclear plants or oil refineries is the activist groups that rise up to stop them from being built. Lawsuits and filings in the judicial system for enviromental assessments and the like (red tape) will stop any plans to build new ones unless the red tape is literally cut away. IE, the objections raised by opposition groups, enviromental groups at the least, are thrown aside.

[Valnir268]

reverting back to the talk about nuclear power. The recent earthquake in Japan raised some points in nuclear safety. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717/ap_ ... apan_quake

Although this was just one of those days where things just went wrong for no reason, but it does bring to light that nuclear energy is still dangerous, and we should use caution when dealing with it. Not saying that we shouldn't use it, just a bit of caution

Dude, that was a fire in the transformers. You're going to have transformers no matter what electricity source you use, and they're going to be subject to fire.

Also a gallon of the water was lost. Big whoop. You would need a REALLY high concentration to do damage to anything. Heavy water happens!

The fires happened because of the recent earthquake. Now many in Japan are worried about how safe the reactors are incase of another earthquake of that size

[ayergo]

Yes, the fires were from the earthquake... but they were in electric transformers. The safety of the reactor itself was not compromised. Modern nuclear reactors would have to see some exceptionally drastic means to cause big problems.

Again, look at the US Navy. Lots of turbulence out there on the seas, no meltdowns.

Electric transformers are not unique to Nuclear power. There are probably several near your home (and actually in the computer you're using now). Fire danger is always going to be a concern with transformers.

[Grand Fromage]

Super-efficient solar arrays in orbit sending down power by microwave beams would be pretty awesome though.

If they don't miss and melt down half a city :P

Playing too much SimCity 2000. :P The proof of concept beams actually aren't particularly dangerous, you can stick your hand in the beam without incident. The principle's similar to Nikola Tesla's wireless power distribution system. Microwaves are not any more automatically evil than ZOMG ATOMS! It's just a light frequency. :p

[Mulu]

Also a gallon of the water was lost. Big whoop.

Well, it was a little worse than that.

TEPCO had initially said the earthquake had not caused any leaks, but it revealed on Monday night that 1,200 liters of radioactive water had sloshed into the sea from its Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in Niigata.

Then on Tuesday, TEPCO officials confirmed a media report that said about 100 drums containing nuclear waste at a warehouse had fallen over and "several" lost their lids.

Only about half of 22,000 drums had been inspected so far, Nagao Suzuki, a TEPCO nuclear operations official, told a news conference in Tokyo. A TEPCO spokesman later said there was no impact on the environment or people.

Also on Tuesday, the company said a small amount of radioactive materials, including cobalt-60 and chromium-51, had been emitted into the atmosphere.

All I know is that if my neighbor's solar panels fall off, I don't have to worry about inhaling chromium-51.

This incident was a minor one, to be sure, but major ones are still possible. I suppose if we really wanted to find an unlimited source of energy, heat conduction from the mantle would be an interesting one. Maybe we could turn Yellowstone into a power generator and prevent it from erupting.

[MorbidKate]

A large part of the reason there are no new nuclear plants or oil refineries is the activist groups that rise up to stop them from being built. Lawsuits and filings in the judicial system for enviromental assessments and the like (red tape) will stop any plans to build new ones unless the red tape is literally cut away. IE, the objections raised by opposition groups, enviromental groups at the least, are thrown aside.

Three Mile Island made nuclear power is a hot topic for the average citizen, not just activists. And activist groups fighting oil refineries? They wish they had that kind of influence Zak. The stagnating refinery capacity was a strategic move to keep gas and heating oil prices at escalated levels so you can be sure the richest company in the World, Exxon Mobil who is also the leading financial contributor to the anti-global warming whores, er scientists for hire don't give a crap about tree huggers.

You should also know that any "red tape" is there to protect Big Oil, not the other way around. You can thank lobbyists and oil rich Presidents for that

Kate

[Lusipher]

I agree with you, Kate. Its a damn shame, too. My one big beef with my party.

[Swift]

Also a gallon of the water was lost. Big whoop. You would need a REALLY high concentration to do damage to anything. Heavy water happens!

Maybe, but general populations dont tend to care. All they hear is their local alarmist news station going "ZOMG RADIOACTIVE WATER LEAKED INTO THE LAKE. After the break, we talk with a scientist with internet qualifications about how many animals this will kill. Also coming up, tips on how to not get killed by this radioactive waste".

[Mulu]

I'll admit I'm a little soft on my standard to metric conversions, but I'm pretty sure it's not one gallon = 1200 liters.

[ayergo]

TEPCO had initially said the earthquake had not caused any leaks, but it revealed on Monday night that 1,200 liters of radioactive water had sloshed into the sea from its Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in Niigata.

Then on Tuesday, TEPCO officials confirmed a media report that said about 100 drums containing nuclear waste at a warehouse had fallen over and "several" lost their lids.

Only about half of 22,000 drums had been inspected so far, Nagao Suzuki, a TEPCO nuclear operations official, told a news conference in Tokyo. A TEPCO spokesman later said there was no impact on the environment or people.

Also on Tuesday, the company said a small amount of radioactive materials, including cobalt-60 and chromium-51, had been emitted into the atmosphere.

A bit misleading about the water. 1.2 Liters of the nuclear Heavy Water used for cooling the spent rods spilled into a second tank of regular water, and 315 gallons of that water went into the sea. so the heavy water was at least heavily diluted before it went into the sea.

Regarding the barrels, the amount lost was 1 billionth of the legal limit in Japan.

Sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... =sec-world
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/worl ... quake.html