Boy King scraps Libby sentence

[Zakharra]

So, what was Libby's crime? Do any of you who have posted here actually know WITHOUT having to google it?

Didn't he like reveal the identity of a covert CIA agent or sommit? Or maybe it was perjury... One of the two. Or both.

No. He didn't reveal the ID of a 'covert' agent. That was found out to have been someone else's doing. He was convicted on perjury in a process crime. Obstruction of justice I think. Not even the prosecutor believed that he outed a CIA agent enough to try him for that.

It's a moot point anyways, the President can pardon anyone for any crime, and there's nothing Congress can do about it.

[Mulu]

Without googling, I believe Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice, though since he was convicted of four out of five counts I'm sure I'm missing some.

Bill Clinton was impeached during wartime for perjury (about getting a bj in an affair of all things, like any married man wouldn't lie about that), so any right-winger who wants to claim a perjury charge is a waste of time should have stood up about it back then.

[Mulu]

Heh, found a news story on the conviction back when it happened in March.

Reid quickly added, "Lewis Libby has been convicted of perjury, but his trial revealed deeper truths about Vice President Cheney's role in this sordid affair. Now President Bush must pledge not to pardon Libby for his criminal conduct."

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., concurred, "Today's guilty verdicts are not solely about the acts of one individual. This trial provided a troubling picture of the inner workings of the Bush Administration. The testimony unmistakably revealed - at the highest levels of the Bush Administration - a callous disregard in handling sensitive national security information and a disposition to smear critics of the war in Iraq."

A White House spokesperson called talked of a pardon "wildly hypothetical".

[ç i p h é r]

Ah, so you're a partisan hack too.

Thanks for clarifying.

No, you're just really bad at reading people. Libby can serve time in jail or get off scott free for all I care. What does it matter to me? There is no underlying justice or civil rights issue for me to be concerned with. The sentence did seem rather harsh - hell Martha Stewart only got 6 months for obstructing justice and her actions likely affected a lot of shareholders - but I have no interest or stake in Libby, his case, or his fate. I don't know Libby from Adam.

So why is this even newsworthy? Truly, what difference does this make to any of us that it stokes such emotion and consumes so much attention? Are you folks really so upset that Libby had his sentence commuted or have you just been programmed to react this way after a lifetime of RED and BLUE corporate brainwashing?

p.s. I was more than a little upset by the whole Kenneth Star affair for the enormous waste of tax dollars that it was and the enormous distraction that it became from serving the interests of the American people - this underscores my sheer frustration with the Democrat and Republican parties - but despite that whole political charade, I was very much disappointed in Bill Clinton's conduct. It is simply unbecoming of a President to act in such a way. Not only did he sully the dignity of the highest office in America, he set an absolutely terrible example for our children in so many ways. It's unthinkable to me that he would return to the White House. That man has no shame and I guess Americans just don't have the values they once did to allow him even the possibility of returning.

[Jeppan]

I was very much disappointed in Bill Clinton's conduct. It is simply unbecoming of a President to act in such a way. Not only did he sully the dignity of the highest office in America, he set an absolutely terrible example for our children in so many ways. It's unthinkable to me that he would return to the White House. That man has no shame and I guess Americans just don't have the values they once did to allow him even the possibility of returning.

So a blowjob is worse than starting a few wars, killing directly and indirectly hundreds of thousands of people? You have a twisted mind Cipher.

[Mulu]

Let's not forget lying to the US and the world about WMD and Iraq connections to Al Qaida, and making torture US policy, and that most of the dead are women and children, and of course making the world a far more dangerous place by encouraging Islamic extremism and giving them a place to train, and accelerating the destruction of the environment, increasing our dependance on foreign oil, recklessly increasing the debt, etc. But surely getting a hummer is far worse conduct.

Why is Libby important? Because we are supposed to be a nation of laws, not men. No one should be above the law. Commuting the sentance of a high profile public servant who had the best defense money can buy, and not ruling out a full pardon later, sends the message that some of us are above the law after all. Libby was among the top five most powerful people in the US govt when he was indicted. The entire process was extremely deliberative, and there is no legitimate claim of error or excess. He's just getting a walk because he's part of power.

I won't pretend this is unique, but this is far worse than most croney pardon cases due to the underlying issues of abuse of power and the false claims for war. It matters. It was also totally predictable.

[ç i p h é r]

So a blowjob is worse than starting a few wars, killing directly and indirectly hundreds of thousands of people? You have a twisted mind Cipher.

Unfortunately Jeppan, you're making a lot of presumptions for that kind of inferential leap, not the least of which is that I'd vote for Bush.

[ç i p h é r]

If by abuse of power you mean that Bush is using his clemency power to shelter himself, then yes. I'd be with you in calling for his impeachment, Mulu. It has to be proven that he committed a crime in the first place, naturally. Otherwise, it's all legit.

Clemency power is granted by the constitution. The sentence was indeed excessive for an obstruction of justice case. Mitigating factors existed, like the prosecution knowing Libby was not the source of the leak prior to his questioning, which in effect set him up for the lie that became the crime (should sound familiar). And lastly, a legitimate claim of error or excess is far from the gold standard. Just look at the trail of controversial presidential pardons, including the 140 person pardon fest on Clinton's last day.

Who can you believe anymore amid the rabble of pathological liars? Good grief.

[mxlm]

If you don't understand why Libby's sentence being commuted matters, then at best you're trolling.

No, you're just really bad at reading people

Wait. You categorically state that everyone concerned with Libby = sheep, and then you say I am really bad at reading people.

Again, at best you're trolling.

[Grand Fromage]

If you don't understand why Libby's sentence being commuted matters, then at best you're trolling.

hay now i'm pretty sure the constitution specifically says the rule of law matters except in cases where you're lying to protect bush

and it's not like bush has ever previously said anything on the topic that would make him out to be a huge douchebag

I don't believe my role is to replace the verdict of a jury with my own.

oh shi-

[ç i p h é r]

If you don't understand why Libby's sentence being commuted matters, then at best you're trolling.

Aren't you putting the cart before the horse? You have to prove guilt, remember? Simply believing it doesn't make it true, which is rather the point. You seem so willing to believe anything you're told.

And if you want a very recent example of why you shouldn't rush to judgment, let me point you in the direction of former Durham county prosecutor Mike Nifong. He had a whole nation of anti-rich-white-folk believers completely fooled. In fact, he played on that sentiment for personal gain rather than pursue the truth, which was ultimately his downfall. Do you suppose your anti-Bush, anti-Republican feelings could be similarly exploited? Hate is possibly the easiest emotion to exploit after all.

Now I'm not saying that Bush isn't guilty, but I'm certainly not going to hang him up from the nearest tree until someone proves that he commuted Libby's sentence to shelter himself. Isn't THAT the law?

B'aaaaa. (j/k...having a little fun with it)

Now where'd I put my wolf costume...

[mxlm]

Yep. Troll.

[Mulu]

If by abuse of power you mean that Bush is using his clemency power to shelter himself

I don't. I mean the abuse of Presidential powers to cook the books on pre-war intelligence and commit an act of illegal aggression. That one has already been proven. Outing Plame, though bad, is small fry compared to conducting an illegal war resulting in thousands of US dead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian dead, and worsening our position in the world.

For clarity, this is on the Bush v Clinton subtopic. And on that subtopic:

A front-page story by Peter Brown in the Washington Post on Monday says the meetings are never listed on the president’s public schedule, and remain unknown to many on his staff, but Bush is summoning "leading authors, historians, philosophers and theologians to the White House."
He is searching for answers to the collapse of his presidency but scientists were not consulted. Perhaps it was an oversight by the writer, but it may explain the number of terminally stupid Bush programs that could have been averted by checking with freshman science students. They could have told him:
1) Not even Dick Cheney can break The First Law of Thermodynamics - hydrogen is not an energy source and for that matter neither is corn ethanol.
2) Ballistic missiles are easier to make than they are to stop.
3) Because the sexual urge, even of presidents, is shaped by evolution to insure procreation - girls under 18 need access to Plan B.
4) Embryonic stem cells are not one-celled people - the "soul" is an ancient superstition with no legal standing.

I wonder if any of his summoned experts are willing to say the obvious, "But sir, the reason your Presidency has collapsed is because you are totally and grossly incompetent, you made placements to important positions based on cronyism rather than ability, and both your goals and methods were completely immoral and unconstitutional."

Though I suspect he isn't searching for real answers, he's searching for spin. Even his legacy is going to be the product of spin-doctoring, or so he hopes.

[Lusipher]

The intel we had pre invasion was what other countries also had on Iraq. (french, etc) so it wasnt just us who had faulty intel. We went with what we thought was legit intel. Least thats what we are told. I agree anyone can doctor up some shit and put it before a panel and say lets go, but only those in the White House know for sure.

[Mulu]

I think Joe Wilson's trip to Niger proved that at least some of the intelligence was bogus. Other countries largely had intel that *we* gave them, or was known to be bogus at the time and had been discounted by experts. The case for cooked intel pre-war is a slam dunk.