Minimum Wage and Cost of Living

[dergon darkhelm]

I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something, a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.

I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's f*cked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bullshit I got two words for that -learn to f*cking type. 'Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big f*cking surprise.

Just so all of you don't think that I'm in reality a cheap bastard........

please realize that I simply copy/pasted Steve Buscemi's dialogue (as Mr. Pink) from the Reservoir Dogs diner scene as my commentary about tipping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D_TAdHLlY0

((it's called "cinematic allusion" ))





ps---if any of you care to know, Malcer Angalstrand is modeled in no small part after Steve Buscemi's Mr. Pink character

[Stormseeker]

Well on the tipping just compare a fast food place to a place where you have to tip. Majority of the time the "tip" place will have better service and for sure food. Especially if it is a well established place.
For food i have found that once you get out of the south especially up on the north eastern seaboard, the worse the food is.
Lets face it, raising the min wage is a "look good" effort by the pricks in power. They could have a bigger impact if they just lowered the taxes across the board. Every time the wage has went up food items increased shortly after. Then after food increased so did everything else.
Twenty years ago min wage was around 2.85, gas was around 82 cents, and a taco at taco bell was 19cents. Now min wage is going to hit the 7 mark, gas is above 3 dollars, and a taco will cost you 59cents.(the taco is also smaller than it use to be)
Construction wages havent changed in over twenty years(less bang for the buck) and the local factories have only increased the base wages by 2 dollars on the average, taxes are higher, auto's are around 3times higher than they was then.
And a person making cash money under min wage is bringing more money home than a person making a 1-2 dollars a hour over min wage at a place that takes out all the taxes.

[HEEGZ]

Just so all of you don't think that I'm in reality a cheap bastard........

please realize that I simply copy/pasted Steve Buscemi's dialogue (as Mr. Pink) from the Reservoir Dogs diner scene as my commentary about tipping.

LMAO

[Amar]

*looks up at all the tipping stuff*

But please tip delivery drivers. We lose money when we get stiffed. The "gas allowances" and "company cars" are for the most part a myth. I make 6.50 an hour + tips, tips average to another 6.00 an hour. But then I drive 60 miles in a 5 hour shift, getting about 10 miles to the gallon in town. Gas is 3.00/gallon here.

5x6=30.00 dollars in tips.
3x6 (mileage)=18.

Woo. 12 bucks in my pocket for a 5 hour shift. rockin. Of course, if one person stiffs me every hour...down $2 each hour...darn, i just made 2 dollars.

[NickD]

I've had a lot of friends and relatives who wait tables for a job. They all do it for the tips and usually average $8-20 an hour after their tips. None of them would work there if they didn't get tipped, but that is a part of our culture I guess. While rich bastards like Dergon don't generally tip (neener), those of us who make a lot less tend to tip 10-20% if service is good. If I am eating out, the tip on top of the tax and price of the food is part of what I'm planning to spend.

My argument is that waiters should get paid enough to work there without tips. Tips should just be the icing on the cake for waiters who are going above the call of duty. Tips should be a bonus, not an expected part of their job.

If the food costs $18, tax is another $2, then it is a given that I will leave a $3 tip. If the bill comes to $40 (often) I usually just leave a five. I seldom leave more than 15%, and if the service is bad I don't leave a tip at all.

And that brings up another thing I don't like about America... why aren't taxes included on the price of things? You go shopping, select your items, have a good idea of the price they all add up to, and then they slap another 8% (or whatever it is in your state) on top of that at the counter! Just include the tax in the price on the sticker/menu so people know how much they're paying! And for people who get a hard on knowing how much tax they've paid (which ultimately doesn't really matter if you ask me), you put the sales tax amount on the receipt. It's how we do it in the civilised parts of the world.

Back to the original comments about minimum wage... It is not enough to live on for a family. If you are single with no dependents you can make it with shared rent, but it is not a living wage per se. What really sucks is when minimum wage goes up, and those making only a bit more then it don't get a raise. Generally the wage paid by a job is held in higher regard the greater it is over the minimum. So a job paying $4 more an hour than minimum wage has less perceived value when the minimum goes up $2. This was a pretty big deal at my last job when suddenly you could find much easier jobs for not much less money. Most employers aren't going to want to raise the wages of all employees in step with the minimum wage. As has been my experience, the rich get richer and the poor stay poor. Though poor Americans are still pretty well off.

I'm going to sound like Nekulor here... People with dependants who are on the minimum wage really should have thought about their ability to support a family before popping out kids when they don't have the education/motivation to get a job that pays higher than minimum wage.

[NickD]

But please tip delivery drivers.

I couldn't even begin to imagine tipping delivery drivers. The shear range of people one is expected to tip in America is mind boggling. Waiters, taxi drivers, the guy who carries your bags in the hotel, 5 different people when you're getting your hair cut, delivery drivers? What's next? Tip the police when they arrest you?

[Stormseeker]

I'm going to sound like Nekulor here... People with dependants who are on the minimum wage really should have thought about their ability to support a family before popping out kids when they don't have the education/motivation to get a job that pays higher than minimum wage.

Well i am going the opposite way. Sometimes things go wrong. Be it a change in who makes the money in the family, illness, or things such as plants/industry moving or closeing down. Sure there is some lazy/worthless/ or just satisfied with their level of living people out there. But there are others who have taken a bad fall and trying to climb back up.

[NickD]

Well i am going the opposite way. Sometimes things go wrong. Be it a change in who makes the money in the family, illness, or things such as plants/industry moving or closeing down. Sure there is some lazy/worthless/ or just satisfied with their level of living people out there. But there are others who have taken a bad fall and trying to climb back up.

Fair point. And in those cases, I truely believe the government should help cover the slack while a person is getting back on their feet. After all, countries function off the backs of low income earners. However, only the lowliest of jobs should be paid the minimum wage. Anything that requires some education or skill should pay more. What I was referring to was the multitude of people who just drop out of school because it's "not relevant" to them or it's too hard and then keep getting girls pregnant with no real consideration for the consequences of their actions and the expectation that society will provide for them. While I disagree with Nekulor that they should be made to live on the streets, it still annoys me somewhat that people who will never contribute to society is supported by it.

When I'm the world president I will establish colonies on Mars filled with people who refuse to work, homeless people, serial offenders and others who are more of a burden than a benefit to society.

Of course, in the words of Prophet Cobain, if worst comes to worst you can always sell the kids for food.

[Veilan]

One thing about voluntary, but expected, tips though is that if you are yourself a poor shmoe, you can still get the service but don't pay the tip, while you couldn't if the tip price was already included. Thus you could see it a bit like a progressive income tax - if you earn more yourself, you can tip more, if you earn less, you tip less.

Just some food for ti... thought.

On the tax not included thing... yeah, what's the sense in it? Seems just to make it harder for people to try to know beforehand how much money they're going to spend.

Over here in euroland, not only must a product display the brutto price, but also display the brutto price per regular unit of the of the product, no matter it's pack size - so you can easily compare what 1kg noodles out of the 375g noodle packs from that one firm cost compared to the 300g noodle packs of that other firm... including tax.

Though, maybe not including either on the price displays is a national math program - or a secret tax on the mathematically challenged. Who knows .

[Grand Fromage]

You guys just can't handle it because you're not used to it. There's no American that gets confused about the tax not being included, except maybe retards. I'm not saying it's better to list it that way, it's simply a non-issue so no one's worried about changing it.

On tipping, people never bring up the benefit with regards to a place you're a regular at. I always tip well (unless they suck), and they remember. I consistently get better food and faster service everywhere that knows me because of that, it's totally worth it.

[NickD]

One thing about voluntary, but expected, tips though is that if you are yourself a poor shmoe, you can still get the service but don't pay the tip, while you couldn't if the tip price was already included. Thus you could see it a bit like a progressive income tax - if you earn more yourself, you can tip more, if you earn less, you tip less.

Just some food for ti... thought.

Pft. If a person is too poor to pay an extra dollar, maybe two, for a dine out meal, then they don't have to go out for dinner in the first place.

Let them eat McDonalds.

[NickD]

You guys just can't handle it because you're not used to it. There's no American that gets confused about the tax not being included, except maybe retards. I'm not saying it's better to list it that way, it's simply a non-issue so no one's worried about changing it.

On tipping, people never bring up the benefit with regards to a place you're a regular at. I always tip well (unless they suck), and they remember. I consistently get better food and faster service everywhere that knows me because of that, it's totally worth it.

I could "handle" it, and it may not be an issue for you lot because you've become accustomed to it, but it's still an arse about face way of doing things. It wasn't so much that I got confused about the tax not being included after the first time, it's more that I would have liked to have a better idea of what I was going to pay before I got to the till without having to know whatever the tax rate was in the State I was in and then pulling out a calculator to punch it all up.

As for your argument for tipping, I'm not saying that tipping should be illegal. What I'm advocating is that waiters, etc should be paid enough as their base wage that tipping should not be required or expected. You'd still be free to tip at your regular place and get all your better service and food, but you wouldn't have people spitting in your food if you're not a tipper or don't tip enough. Really, if you consider that a waiter might well wait on 8 people in an hour - probably more - just $1 per meal extra would easily be enough to cover the cost of giving a waiter a decent wage.

[Mulu]

You know, begging nets an average of $15.00/hour, tax free.... (according to studies).

When I was in college, I knew some girls that worked as cocktail waitresses. They made $100.00/hr in tips. That was in the 80's. They only reported the tips they got through credit cards, and a token more, so it was mostly tax free.

Strippers (attractive ones) earn about $100,000.00/year, and rarely claim more than 10% of it as taxable income.

[mxlm]

Amar, get a new job. Now.

If you're using your own car, maintenance costs incurred by your work will far outweigh what you're paid.

[NickD]

You know, begging nets an average of $15.00/hour, tax free.... (according to studies).

I don't give to beggars. In New Zealand we have a good enough welfare system that nobody needs to beg. Those that do are begging because they have made choices that have lead them to that place, and I refuse to take responsibility for another person's choices.

In foreign countries (including 1st world countries like Britain and America), begging is a lot more prolific than it is here, and I think that's largely because in those countries the governments are less compassionate about the less fortunate. But I still wouldn't give money to beggars for much the same reason and for the reason you stated.

Strippers (attractive ones) earn about $100,000.00/year, and rarely claim more than 10% of it as taxable income.

Don't get me started on strippers!

Over here, we're prudes compared to countries like Thailand when it comes to stripping, but we're very liberal compared to other 1st world countries. In parts of London, strippers aren't even allowed to take off their thongs! You pay an excessive amount of money to get into a strip club, pay exorbitant drink prices, and it's just a topless bar! In America, there are strip clubs where not only are they topless only, but the stage is behind a wall of glass! Might as well go watch some porn on TV! How are you sposed to stuff your notes down their panties when they're behind a wall of glass?! And in Sydney, Australia you pay like $80 for lap dance only to find out that they call it a private dance because it's really just them stripping on a small stage in a private room! What's the point in that if they're not writhing in your lap?!? You pay less here in NZ for a lap dance where you're actually allowed to fondle the girl (except in the groinal area)! Which you're not allowed to do in any of the countries mentioned.

PS. I do tip strippers.