Jeppan wrote:Helios wrote:
Well I'm here to say some types of discirmination isn't bad. We don't need to be blindly stupid and neither do you. Recognize the difference between muslims on a plane and orthadox jews, whites, blacks, etc. Is that discrimination? Yes it is, is it profiling, yes it is. Is it logical in this day and age to be wary, yes it is. It's pefectly logical. Don't tell me I need to turn a blind eye to some people spouting judeo-christian prayers and muslims doing the same thing before boarding a plane because that would be "wrong" and "discirminatory."
- But you said the perpetuation of discrimination isn't a good thing. You're right it's not. But eliminating it shouldn't be your motive except at the government level. There is nothing "good" about you Mikayla or your liberalism views.
Helios, it is one thing that we should maintain a level of security on for example airplanes. Profiling is part of this and as long as it is done with this in mind, IMO, it is not a bad thing. It is natural that while we defend everyones rights we also defend everyones right to live. It is a fine line and we must be wary to not step too far. The exact limit is fluent and can only be decided by contemporary politics. I myself has found myself looking warily at complete strangers when in an airplane, despite my intellectual stand for the opposite. It is natural to be afraid or threatened sometimes.
This however has nothing to do with everyones equal rights under the law. There are no reasons for allowing one citizen to be more equal than another under the law.
If I may be so blunt, it seems you confuse the need for security with equality to the law. If transgendered people are statistically more likely to blow up airplanes then fine check them for bombs before entering the plane. Do not strip them of equal rights (equal rights means all rights that you have, not just some) though just because some transgendered people want to prove a point by blowing up planes. It does not compute.
On a more personal note Helios, you have struck a harsh tone from the start and taken a position that is hard to argue for, this is why so many of us liberal (again I would not classify myself as a liberal in the american sense of the word but still) pigdogs have gathered here. Some arguments are too offensive/brash/faulty to pass without comments and rebuttals.
Jeppan, you're the voice of reason among them. I want you to know that.
If if you sometimes go on an anti-american bent.
Finally!! You get it. . . YOU GET IT!! I fucking love you Jeppan!!!
I want to point out that it's about independent individuality and the right to be a complete ass. Though we shouldn't. Conservatives are more about retaining the individual rights of a person without erroding that which is morally sound and fair. I'm a poor conservative and I can admit that.
Yes, I did strike a harsh tone immediatly starting on these forums. What better entrance then a standard conservative banging of the pots and pans. Now, I'm allowed to take a position that's hard to argue for. I have a right to do that. Do I expect to win? Nah, no I don't. I'll continue to state my opinion. Likewise, you have the ability to be complete jerks or arrive with some stability in response of it. I'm glad that you're not acting up Jeppan. I think that speaks volumes of you and your character as a human being.
Helios, it is one thing that we should maintain a level of security on for example airplanes. Profiling is part of this and as long as it is done with this in mind, IMO, it is not a bad thing. It is natural that while we defend everyones rights we also defend everyones right to live. It is a fine line and we must be wary to not step too far. The exact limit is fluent and can only be decided by contemporary politics. I myself has found myself looking warily at complete strangers when in an airplane, despite my intellectual stand for the opposite. It is natural to be afraid or threatened sometimes.
This however has nothing to do with everyones equal rights under the law. There are no reasons for allowing one citizen to be more equal than another under the law.
I'm so happy right now I could kiss you on the cheeks. YOU GET IT! YOU GET IT!! I feel like saying welcome to the republican party or something. . . I don't really have any ceremony for this. I think we have some hazing rituals. . . somewhere. Where did I put that pamplet?!
If I may be so blunt, it seems you confuse the need for security with equality to the law. If transgendered people are statistically more likely to blow up airplanes then fine check them for bombs before entering the plane. Do not strip them of equal rights (equal rights means all rights that you have, not just some) though just because some transgendered people want to prove a point by blowing up planes. It does not compute.
Now allow me to cherry pick some ideas of my own from some of my prior posts.
Jeppan, I'm not advocating state-sponsored discrimination. I'm advocating independent discrimination. I understand the morality behind it, and I'm not arguing this to defend holier then thou art Danubus. My question is, do you understand the morality behind it?
Thank you for saying US is “something” of a dual nature. I just want to confirm the fact that it “IS” a dual nature. Modern “Neo”-liberal along the coasts and “pitch-dark” conservatives southernly inland. A blatant exaggeration to be sure and not entirely true.
If you mean the state has no right treating some more equal then others you're right. However, we both know you meant individuals. I'm afraid equality doesn't exist, not until it's eliminated through abstract blind liberalism, which you seem to whole heartily practice, or eliminated through conservative moral rights, which, I'm afraid to say, doesn't include our friend Danubus at all. . .
Mikayla, You should be granted the same awful tax status like everyone else.
Mikayla, This should be all states, but it's not. It should be similiar to legal marriage.
ADDENDUM: Independent states should reserve the right to obstain from any national laws regarding civil unions but not taxes. Our individuality as states must be respected where majority rules. . . Please feel free to provide the counter arguement to this, Mikayla.
Mikayla, If civil unions were more state supported then there wouldn't be a need for any religious aspect.
ADDENDUM: Something we have always both agreed with Mikayla.
Those opposed to you should not be forced to change. Likewise, they shouldn't be able to change you. Doing either would be a conflict of basic freedoms. His right to be an absolute bigot, and your right to pursue inalienable rights to become a "actual citizen" of the united states. Good luck with your fight Mikayla, you're going to need it. I also want to take this time to ask you to reflect upon racism and bigotry with in your own party. It is there and quite apparent. So try to be bipartisan you awful lawyer.
ADDENDUM: I believe you make an honest attempt at being bipartisan.
However, I can state that “inequality” happens to us all irregardless of our sexual affiliation. Indeed affirmative action/reverse racism, racism, sexism is a fundamental flaw which needs to be corrected in our society. It could potentially be abolished by blind liberalism and I fear that day. But you blindly follow and you have no idea why I would fear it. I'll allow you to poke around in the dark without explaining myself.
ADDENDUM: No explaination needed anymore. Yahoo!
Helios:
Quote:
Good, you're allowed to serve. Granted it's not openly but does that matter in the military? I'm glad you provided a service to our country.
I don't know if you actually regret doing it or not.
Yes it matters. One person I know who got outed in the military was beaten up and hung from a third-floor barracks window. Fortunately he survived. His attackers were never caught, but he was dishonorably discharged for being gay.
That sounds bad. Can't you challenge the ruling of the military court?[/quote]
ADDENDUM, Well? Speak up Mikayla. I'm actually very interested in this.
Well Mikayla, you certainly do seem to think genital mutilation is forced and not local custom. Allow me to fix your confusion by telling you it is considered a social custom. Though - condemned by moderate Muslim clergy and often dismissed "Oh it's their culture, mutilation is fine by me. Let's just call it vagina cutting." liberals. It is still practiced to this day and I for one find it morally wrong. Does this "culture" shock you that it's practiced? It certainly attracts the anmesty international crowd.
Please feel free to judge me and call me evil for being a conservative and advocating (
I prefer the word understanding instead of advocating. But you liberals, I love how your minds work.) hate speech. Mikyala, I've always doubted you and it will never change until you do.
ADDENDUM: Please pay closer attention to that which is bolded. It's hard to give an example of what I consider to be okay, and not okay. "hate speech." Thus revealing the truth of my position. ACLU defending the neo-nazi movement which is a by product of WW2 shouldn't be defended. They shouldn't even be allowed in our country, instead they should be held completely accountable for their actions instead of outright ignored by the general public. I argue that allowing evil to exist is an inherently evil but the arguement becomes ubitquitous and countered by the left. e.g. when the the clear cut definition of good verses evil is obscured. i.e. Saddam bad. Bush good. but I'm getting off track in this addendum.[ /b]
But of course - its not extreme to wish to be treated fairly, its only natural.
I agree with that.
You're entitled to your opinion Mikyala.
and it's in my own opinion, Mikayla. That you are smart, wise, haughty, narcissistic, cruel, "edit" and forgot elitist. I just want you to know that despite everything you've said, you've not changed my mind about you and your mind has not been changed about me. Everything has come full circle. Is this a fair assessment to make?
ADDENDUM: You already stated you're not out to change everyone's minds. You are still posting to justify your position when it already has been acknowledged by myself. Why? I have no fucking clue.
This issue on equal rights just happens to be clear cut issue, if not morally ambiguous.
I believe Mikyala deserves equal rights under the law but as a republican I can't speak for everyone and tell them what to do. Doing so would be the reverse of democracy and will eventually lead to a form of dictatorship of free thought. In other words Danubus, I'm okay with you being a Christian and anti-trans gender. Mikayla, your lifestyle is morally ambiguous to me in the sense that, as a potential mental disease it can be considered morally good. You may argue with me and explain it like you did in IRC, make fun of me, label me a Homophobe, whatever. You attempted to explain your sexual nature in IRC and it sounded like absolute lunacy the way you defended your position. It was like a donkey attempting a conversation with a human. (You were the donkey in this case, and it was one of the few times I actually found you to be completely, incompetently, ineloquent. So thats saying a quite a bit.)
Now back to my main point. - You deserve equal rights like all others, but you cannot leave it at that. Because you are pushing an agenda. It's the very reason you still argue with me now. You instead attempt to infuse your beliefs with my own in an effort to justify your position. It just wont work.
Now Jeppan (Jeppan, see I corrected the use your name because I'm going to attempt to be nice to you from now on.), I'm not advocating state-sponsored discrimination. I'm advocating independent discrimination. I understand the morality behind it, and I'm not arguing this to defend holier then thou art Danubus. My question is, do you understand the morality behind it?
Yes, not that I would advocate any kind of discrimination but if I had to chose I would prefer the state to treat everyone equal and go from there. Maybe peoples views would change with new legislation as well?
They wont. The world is too diversified. Instead we should acknowledge this diversity instead of treating everyone “equal.” Treating everyone equal to the point where it becomes flawed serves no purpose. I'm not going to ignore undocumented illegal immigrants crossing our borders and bringing with them diseases as well as unknown criminal records that could be potentially damaging to health care and public safety and group them into the same pile as those that come here under legal means or as political refugees from war torn countries. Such as the Hmong that fled here to Minnesota. You can do a Google search on that. One goes undocumented and raises concerns despite the fact that they may also be fleeing oppressive governments or other financial reasons. i.e. Sending our money back to their country. One is applying for citizenship and is requesting amnesty. The other is potentially damaging our economic system. Now I know how you stand on illegal immigration. It's the product of the “psychotic” far right in Sweden. Know that what is the case for you, isn't necessarily the same case for us. We're a bigger country with a vast amounts of undocumented aliens here. You're roughly the size of well, California. Easier to manage. Look at us. We cant even get people to agree to one thing, that's how fucking abnormally diverse we are. It's a problem, we can't be equal. We don't know their criminal record and this country is just too big to bother finding them all through current flawed processes. I'm all for immigration. Come on over here everyone, it's a great place to live. It'sa invite you can all bunk with me. 
There are some types of discrimination that are perfectly fine with me.[/quote][/quote][/code]
) It wasnt a question of me dealing with my epilepsy by working through it. I HAD to take medication for it or I would probably be dead. Your condition was self inflicted. Having to use meds to survive and having to cut my johnson off because I dont know what I am are two different things. Im sure you could have lived just fine as a man. You were not born queer as most of your ilk like to believe. We are who we want to become. Are actions make us into the man or woman we are. You might have grown up having the feeling of being shy around men when you were younger or felt more safe and secure around females, because of family issues. I dont knows, but those things didnt make you gay. You made the decision to change your own sex. No one gave you "a gay disease" you chose to follow that path. I, on the other hand, ended up getting this disease. Probably from a head injury I had due to a car accident. 
