NWN2: Beta & Live

HEEGZ · Post by **HEEGZ** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:10 am

I have told some of you already via PM on IRC, however I thought I'd make a blanket statement for everyone. I recommend that each server team put up a small Beta area of a starting town/locale with merchants, etc. to get the Beta process underway. Since there is no basemod, I think working out the scripts and other details of keeping a server online will be better if we get them online quickly. This is not mandatory of course, but a recommendation on my part. I am still working out the details of when to add NWN2 team members to the DM roster and I think it will be tied to having a functional Beta module at some level of development. As a final note, I thought I'd also mention that I don't see why a server with fully functional scripts, OOC areas, starting town, and adventuring areas couldn't go Live. If standards are met, then the server could go Live and the mod can be built in chunks and updated as work is completed. If you feel you have a better idea, or see flaws in anything I've posted, please post in this thread. Nothing concrete here, but now that we've got servers hitting Beta I think we should discuss things in a bit more detail. Thanks.

Nathan

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:40 am

Personally, I'd far prefer a lengthier play-beta stage, to get things worked out. DMs are free to run quests on the Beta servers, folks can log in and RP to heart's content: but IMHO ALFA's second "Live" date should be a Big Deal- and having ALFA-standard systems for things like portalling between servers, persistent storage, death/bleeding, resting/spell recovery, spells, feats, skills, spawns, creatures, etc, should be mandatory before then. I would certainly want to see more than two servers make the Live date as well: we're not going for a race to be the "first and only" ALFA Live server, we're talking about the start of an entire new phase, Beta is for getting things standardized and Working, and assembling enough world to feel immursive. To me, that's never going to be a single server, with a few standards-compliant areas and merchants.

Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but it's a rather heartfelt one for me.

Audark · Post by **Audark** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:04 am

I largely agree Acadius that tiem and effort must be spent to standardize and get everythign up to snuff before we go live, so teh playing field is level and remains so for all of alfa2.

Personally I want to see Betas up as quickly as possible, so that those with the itch can get on and play or test or whatever, but the switch to actual 'Live' shouldn't be rushed. I don't think this is what HEEGZ really intends, he did say they would go live when they meet standards. I've spoken with HEEGZ and this is mroe a nudge to get servers to focus ona single area first, get it respectably complete for playign and testing before moving on to other hubs/areas. We don't need to rush into live, but I share HEEGZ's eagerness to see Betas, it can only draw in more excitement and support.

Thangorn · Post by **Thangorn** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:54 pm

AcadiusLost wrote:Personally, I'd far prefer a lengthier play-beta stage, to get things worked out. DMs are free to run quests on the Beta servers, folks can log in and RP to heart's content: but IMHO ALFA's second "Live" date should be a Big Deal- and having ALFA-standard systems for things like portalling between servers, persistent storage, death/bleeding, resting/spell recovery, spells, feats, skills, spawns, creatures, etc, should be mandatory before then. I would certainly want to see more than two servers make the Live date as well: we're not going for a race to be the "first and only" ALFA Live server, we're talking about the start of an entire new phase, Beta is for getting things standardized and Working, and assembling enough world to feel immursive. To me, that's never going to be a single server, with a few standards-compliant areas and merchants.

Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but it's a rather heartfelt one for me.

+1

You are certainly not alone in this sentiment. Lets at least get the basics 100% right before live.

HEEGZ · Post by **HEEGZ** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:40 pm

I had posted back in Dec. I think asking about a single server push, etc. Since then I've come to my current opinion that an actual Live launch with 4-5 servers is doable as well as preferable. What I am trying to bring up, is that it is not necessary to have one's entire proposed region built in order to go Live, however having complete areas that meet standards would naturally be required. Beta is even easier with a somewhat complete starting area, merchants, and a few other things to start off with. I'm hopeful that we can get more volunteers once people see a work in progress and become motivated to step in to help.

Something that was brought up is standardizing things before we go Live. What thoughts do you guys have about doing this without a basemod? It seems to me at first glance that all of our servers will be going about things in different ways perhaps, though there may be some natural sharing of resources. I'm a bit weak in knowledge on the ACR and ABR so perhaps those two systems will be all that is required.

This is exactly the sort of discussion I was looking for, so keep it up please.

Castano · Post by **Castano** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:02 am

As for basemod....I have held off implementing anything from the community into my mod (e.g. death/bleeding, portals etc.)

The mod I am building is going to be only NWN2 standard content until we do get an agreed upon system (at the minimum .erfs for each aspect (e.g. portals, death scripts, DM wands etc.).

This way i know I will not choose anything that gets replaced later by some newer system.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:24 am

HEEGZ wrote:Something that was brought up is standardizing things before we go Live. What thoughts do you guys have about doing this without a basemod? It seems to me at first glance that all of our servers will be going about things in different ways perhaps, though there may be some natural sharing of resources. I'm a bit weak in knowledge on the ACR and ABR so perhaps those two systems will be all that is required.

I'm curious to know what server teams, particularly those approaching or now in BETA, are using for scripts and content? HEEGZ, would it be possible to take stock of what creature, item, and placeable content is being used by each team? Are they simply using stock NWN2 content? Have they created their own custom content? Have they built anything to the guidelines posted in the Wiki? Ditto for scripts. What is everyone using?

Almost a year ago, we began the process of making lists, asking for volunteers, and trying to coordinate a build effort on a global scale. Yet for all that time, we simply haven't made enough progress. I am admittedly disappointed by the outcome so far, but what I'd like to know at this juncture (especially since I keep hearing people occasionally lament the lack of a basemod) is WHO actually wants a basemod and/or standardized resources?

Do any of the builders on server teams really value the availability of a global, standardized palette? Do builders, players, and DMs really want standardized scripted systems? Do we have buy in across ALFA or the better part of it for such things, or was this nothing more than an idea a few people ever believed in? Given where we are now and what everyone is doing, I'm not entirely convinced that server teams really saw or see the need for anything of a global nature. I get the sense, rightly or wrongly, that teams are perfectly happy operating independently of one another.

If this is untrue, then we need folks to revaluate their current priorities. Put your brushes aside until we get the bare essentials in place.

Daeftan · Post by **Daeftan** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:40 am

Hi there.

Most of you don't know me, but I've been working on the Moonsea - Alfa2-06 project as a builder and writer since November. I would like to offer a couple of thoughts:

1) getting to Beta. I agree completely with Heegz that we should try and get certain segments to beta as quickly as possible. Beta testing does not mean that you are near release, it means that you have people other than the dev team interacting with and testing the product. While 'Beta' has become synonymous with 'almost ready for live' in the gaming industry, in most software dev fields you get components of your product into Beta testing very early so you can get the necessary feedback and course correction required to develop a really great product. You simply can't get this without getting non-dev's to use and review the product.

2) The Base Mod. The last post asked the question, "How important is a base-mod to the various dev teams?" To me as a developer, the essential question is, "Without a base mod to pattern off of, how likely is the work I am doing subject to change or elimination based upon its non-conformity to ALFA2 standards?" There are two categories that concern me: First, actual script/software conflicts arising between dev work I do now without a base mod, and a future implementation of some ALFA2-wide play system. Second, a "standards" judgement where the work I do now is judged against some future standard that is not specified during development. I am happy to dev my heart out and create hundreds of hours of neat build and scripting, but I need to feel some assurance that my work conforms to the longterm dev path of the project. That doesn't require a "base mod", but it does require some understanding of what we plan to offer as a standard. For example, will we be offering haks, controlling them, updating them? Who and how will this be handled? What will be the criteria for inclusion? Who will judge that the criteria is being met? Currently, these concern forces me to work almost entirely within the bounds of the base toolset offerings (since I know those are unlikely to be altered significantly).

Just my 2 cents. Also, my comments are IMHO only and do not necessarily represent those of the Moonsea dev team.

Peace.

HEEGZ · Post by **HEEGZ** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:02 am

It would be helpful for me to have a breakdown of how a basemod is differentiated from the ACR and ABR. From what I have seen, most servers are using what shipped with the game so far. Scripts are light or non-existent. On the OAS, we are shifting over to ALFA's ACR 1.7 from NWN1 that Marklos adapted for his WD server. I should have more to comment on when I am less tired and have more info in hand.

Nice post Daeftan, hope to have something more detailed for you soon. Some of what you mention should be addressed by our tech folks though because I am still wrapping my brain around the details atm.

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:04 am

I just started a new thread in the Basemod forums on the basemod issue:

http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=34221

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:18 am

From a Standards and Live Review point of view, the ABR is critical. Without it, much lengthier and more detailed analysis of servers will be necessary and - inevitably - more content will be expunged, which is the greatest sin of all. My personal involvement with the ABR has tailed off since the end of last year, and now I have taken the Standards Lead job it is likely to be limited to a circumscribed process of review. I would, however, recommend to everyone involved with NWN2 modules to devote as much time and effort as they possibly can not to getting their module to Beta, but to getting the ABR completed. In particular, I would suggest to all NWN2 build teams that adding some forms of content to their servers (particularly creature) may well be little more than a waste of their - and ultimately others' - time. I appreciate that the ABR work is a lot less personally involving than more creative module build activity, but a quality ABR is a necessary investment; without it, we will repeat many of the mistakes of NWN1 ALFA.

Daeftan · Post by **Daeftan** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:00 pm

Rusty pretty much confirmed all of my fears and worries about developing in the absence of a clear specification. I have worked on other such projects where the entire core content required stripping and changing because of this. It is very disheartening to developers.

I agree with him that while a fast pace to Beta sounds attractive and useful, if an ABR is going to be used eventually, it should be implemented first. As such, I'd like to offer my builder/scripting services to whatever purpose will best accelerate the development of this. Please let me know if this is desired and who I should contact if so.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:25 am

my 2 cents. i agree with both sentiments, but for different reasons.

Having a basemod (or ABR) is essential so that what u build is 'per standard' right off the bat. Thus, it should be first and foremost in the scripting end of things.

Creating betas provides mod developers a chance to showcase the upcoming attractions to the prospective players that are 'trying' to be patient. In this respect, it benefits in three ways to have betas out there. One is to give players an opportunity to participate in the debugging, two it gives the players something to do besides 'make trouble' in the forums or leave outright, and three it gives mod developers a chance to refine their mods.

So, i think the issue is, if you're a scripter... step away from the 'localized' projects and work together to formulate the Global necessities. If you're a module developer, stay on course and continue building up your mods, without 'complex' scripts. If you find something in NWVault you want to add to your mod, then put it on the table so that it can be reviewed, fixed, and then added to the 'Global content,' but try not to add it in advance... and then have us backtrack.

I think the big mistake (which brings back memories of some of the mistakes posed when developing ALFA1) is for scripters to focus their talents on 'localized' projects (a particular mod) rather than the global one, which is receiving so little support. Granted, the temptation is far greater to make an individual project (mod) rock, rather than the 'entire' project rock, and it doesn't help much that it is 'easier' to focus on the smaller project (mod). But the temptation needs to be resisted, because in the end the project succeeds... or fails... together.

*cricket* out

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:34 am

Last thought...

I do believe there is just a tad too much politics and efforts to "pacify everyone" in ALFA, when working on global content. This needs to be abandoned completely, and the focus should be on K.I.S.S., not on pacification of the masses. We need to get the Global content, basemod, ABR, ACR, and all the other acronyms out there without further debate about anything other than game balance. No special interests should be heard at this juncture. Just do it. Nike...