NWN2: Passing of time/aging

Dorn · Post by **Dorn** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:45 am

I had a quick look and couldn't find this being addressed elsewhere but i may be wrong.

I would love to have a character that could get older.

A youth who leaves the hold in search of adventure grows into manhood with the scars of battle, makes his way in the world to become the lord of a small place or a mercenary company or something and then grows steadily older increasingly wise and respected and perhaps even frail in later life.

Ideally you could see your character grow, and those who are successful would see them become middle aged to their latter years even.

With NWN2 we shoul have more flexibility with character appearance and information so can change descruiptions, age and their looks as we go. Even if not, it's only a matter of a few rebuilds over a few years.

In terms of timing. Something like a year of real time constitutes 5-10 years of Realms time. VERY few human characters last longer than 2 years in this game so having the time passing set at 10 would be good as it would take a character from 20-40 years old and considering the responsibilities usually on long term characters (ie lord of this manner, captain of this company etc), it makes sense.

That would be the ideal. But lets think practically. Most characters don't last that long, and it only really applies to humand and hins (i think).

A young elf is going to be a young and frivolous for the entirity of ALFA2 i'd assume:) Oh they'll get scarred by events but they are slow to change those pointey eared freaks and will still be youths. Similar wiht the dwarves. Perhaps a littel more growing up than the elves but probably only a change in the type of beer they drink or the braiding of their beards. Gnomes...well i dont really want to talk about those abominations.

Now the options as far as i see it are:
- establish a system
- no system but recomendation and APM update
- nothing and let peopel who want to age age and let others stay 16 for eva

Thoughts?

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:33 am

Let's ask how relevant this would be in a practical sense. How much IG time has passed since live? in RL, I believe live was April 15 2003, so we're talkin 3 years and some months real-time. Now, everybody seems to maintain that large-scale time in-game is on a 1:1 ratio with real time, so that means a PC started at live is now all of a mightily-aged 3 years older. To make it relevant, we would have to as you say significantly increase the time ratio. you'd need a 3:1 ratio to get a decade of aging since live, which still isn't particularly significant in a practical sense.

The real downside to formally implementing aging is that you'd need age categories complete with stat changes for it to mean anything. You'd then need a time progression ratio that had PCs changing categories. And you'd have to have all that automated. As it is, hell, we can't even edit our PC descriptions to reflect a new scar.

So, I like the concept, but the time horizon we work with just doesn't make it meaningful.

Dorn · Post by **Dorn** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:43 am

everybody seems to maintain that large-scale time in-game is on a 1:1 ratio with real time

I'll get to this later

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:05 pm

fluff:

Now, everybody seems to maintain that large-scale time in-game is on a 1:1 ratio with real time, so that means a PC started at live is now all of a mightily-aged 3 years older.

Nope.

There are a whole lot of us that extend the 9:1 thing to large scale time, otherwise Arien could never have had her babies and seen them grow up, my character would still be pregnant, etc. So far as I am concerned, my PC was created a little over 2 years ago in real life and in-game, about 20 years has passed - and since her daughter (conceived and delivered in game) is about 15 or 16 (and now uses an adult toon), that seems about right.

psycho_leo · Post by **psycho_leo** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:15 pm

fluffmonster wrote:Now, everybody seems to maintain that large-scale time in-game is on a 1:1 ratio with real time

I know a bunch of people IG that use the 9:1 compression to signify the passing of time, including myself. I mean.. I see the sun go up and down.. so I say days are passing. None of my PCs had children or anything, but usually if two RL days go by between two IG events I treat this as a few days or a couple of weeks.

Now, I would love to see something like Dorn says implemented, but if it turns out to be much of a hassle we can always leave things as they are and let our imaginations run wild.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:19 pm

The 1:1 matching of the FR calendar to the real life calendar is only really used (that ive seen) for the purposes of celebrations and events that are held on specific days in the year. The rest is 'comic book time' IE whatever the timescale the DM of a plot decides to use, and outside of that, 9:1 if you can keep track. I started my PC in Janurary 04 and i have played it as though at least 15-20 years has passed in her life.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:30 pm

Wow, Fluff, you must not play much. I was quickly indoctrinated into the idea that the 9:1 time compression IG carried through even when logged off. So, if I didn't play for a week that means my PC was absent from town for 9 weeks (and needed an explanation for her absence...).

I also rp'ed my PC aging, though I wasn't here long enough for that aging to become an issue.

Cassiel · Post by **Cassiel** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:57 pm

It can be a little awkward - my toon met Arien way back when she was a paltry level 2 dr00d on Daggerdale, and that was all fine. My toon wandered off on her merry, nomadic way at a time ratio of 1:1 and returned to the Dales a year or so later (my toon's time and mine)...to find Arien's husband was dead and the three kids were all grown up, making my toon 15 years older and pushing retirement.

That said, it works. People can smooth over the inconsistencies - as things stand:
*If you want your toon to get older and have kids, you can do so in a meaningful fashion, and I know some DMs have allowed cosmetic remakes to accommodate this.
*If you want your toon to be able to fight orcs without the use of a wheelchair, you can go with a roughly 1:1 timescale.

I don't see how any rigorously enforced timeframe can allow both these things to be true.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:15 pm

So far as I know, we have always ahered to a "comic book" system of time which allows for maximum flexibility (and confusion if you try to nail down dates).

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:17 pm

Myself, I never kept track of long-term time progression...I just asked in chat, and those njubs said 1:1. Otherwise, going along on comic-book time is just fine and what I mostly do. Makes it easy to deal with all the little inconsistencies and such. But recall what's being proposed here as an alternative...essentially a unified long-run ratio applying to everybody. My point of whether it matters is still valid even at a 9:1 ratio...people saying their PC has aged 15-20 years for some of the most long-term PCs we have. That still wouldn't shift age categories much. Irrelevant for dorfs or elves of any age; hin or humans that aren't already older than the typical starting age. Only meaningful for half-orcs really.

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:32 pm

Every official nod I saw from any particular Admin said we advanced the clock anually. I suppose our toons can age 3-5 years per game year, but I've always played it as 1:1 for any long-term time. It makes no sense to camp, log out for the night, log back in the next day to continue your trek and try to explain the week that has passed during the rest.

That said, 9:1 helps explain a lot how you woke up on TFN, and went to bed on Selgaunt.

I'm all for expansive role-play. For those few PCs that wish to raise children, etc, I'd urge we make *exceptions* to the normal timeline for them. As long as that toon-time does not result in them instantly gaining the Keep, serfs, Title and income resulting from the unplayed years, this should not be an issue for anyone else. In essense, rather than FFWing the clock for everyone, simply gradually backdate their start date for the phantom years.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:24 pm

I remember when I first joined there were multiple threads about how it was WINTER and various simulationist naz.. er folk were claiming that if you didn't have a winter cloak you'd die of cold, etc. So I bought one with my starting gold. At the same time I'm being told time passes at 9:1, so winter could only realistically last a couple of RL weeks at most, even though the forum threads lasted longer than that. And of course the game engine weather was quite calm on most days. I never was able to ascertain exactly when I no longer needed a winter cloak, I just eventually replaced it with a magic one when I could afford it. *shrugs*

It's like distances, coins and ammo. Time works best on a PW when simply abstracted, thus freeing people up to rp rather than crunch the details. Still, I also remember reading some huge raging debates on the issue. I'm all for comic book time, though it does tend to preclude world events from having a definite date, and it certainly causes a lot of confusion.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:56 am

Swift wrote:The 1:1 matching of the FR calendar to the real life calendar is only really used (that ive seen) for the purposes of celebrations and events that are held on specific days in the year. The rest is 'comic book time' IE whatever the timescale the DM of a plot decides to use, and outside of that, 9:1 if you can keep track. I started my PC in Janurary 04 and i have played it as though at least 15-20 years has passed in her life.

Dead on here. No point changing it, as far as I'm concerned.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:50 am

Well, I guess it doesn't matter massively - but it would be noce, at least, if everyone were in agreement.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:29 am

How about we agree to not agree? ALFA's time is left ambiguous for good reasons, RL events can put off plots and events much longer than they should be. It may sound cheesy, but I think the best solution is just "don't think about it so much".