pnp rules for shorties

[Rumple C]

ok, its probably a safe bet to say that in nwn2 the halflings/gnomes and other shorties will be running around at the same speed as the larger folk. How about we limit them to their 3.5 movement rates and carrying abilities? (and weapon size restrictions as well if they arent in?)

i think it would be a nice bit of realism when adventuring parties have to go slow and wait for their shorter companions to catch up... a bit like parents taking their toddlers out for a walk.

(and yes i will be playing a halfling in nwn2)

[NickD]

How about we limit them to their 3.5 movement rates and carrying abilities?

Limiting them to their D&D movement speeds would be annoying with a mixed party because I doubt you'd be able to set your walking speed to the slowest party member. Then you'll get situations where the halfling has to keep running to catch up because the other players refuse to wait and then DMs keep tripping you up for poor roleplaying in running around and then take 1d4 damage.

As for the carrying abilities, I think that's a suck rule. The carrying abilities of halflings and gnomes are already hit by their strength hit. Also, almost anything the halfling carries (pretty much everything except weapons) should be half the weight of human gear, which I doubt they will be in game.

[Spider Jones]

The movement rates could only be justified if they also gave gnomes, dwarves, and other small sized creatures slower movement rates. Also PCs wearing medium or heavy armor would be slower.

It'd also require the implementation of small sized equipment. Though halflings and gnomes have smaller carrying capacities, they also have lighter weight armor and standard gear that they carry about.

[Shaugg]

Are you sure the movement rates are not going to be in NWN2? I thought they were. I think these rules are important.

The weight issues should be addressed as well. I thought this was going to be in NWN2 as well.

[Khazar Stoneblood]

While this may be correct in PnP, I'm not for any of it.

If you make halflings slower... they can't EVER run away from other creatures, because they'll be slower. I won't ever play a short race if it prevents me from escaping an encounter... there'd be no point.

In PnP there are other ways to escape... crawl through a hole larger things can't fit through, dodge through a crowded room where regular size creatures get held up by the crowd... something. If you take escape away, the race becomes useless.

The weight thing is fine... if lower weight equipment is provided. If not, I'm not for it either.

If NWN2 doesn't provide it automatically, I don't think instituting it is worthwhile.

[Brother Humphrey]

In both Haze and Penitence we had racial speeds (Haze) and armor speed reductions (Penitence), and Armor Equipping Times (both), which added a great deal of realism/PnP feel to the game. If you spent less than the full amount of time putting on your armor (not shields!) then you wound up with an AC penalty, as per PnP. An attempt was also made (not sure if it worked or not) with regard to allowing dwaves to ignore the movement penalties for medium/heavy armor, which I was lead to believe was a PnP rule.

We also had racial armors/clothing which only certain sized races/subraces could wear, and yes, weight reductions for different racial armors (at least for some of them, in Haze), to the best of my recollection. Now it's quarter to 2 in the morning, so i better shower and hit the hay.

[psycho_leo]

I don't think the movement rate applies here.. this is a computer game we're talking about.. we already have much people (like myself) that has to make party members wait due to slow ATs.. if I were on the top of it o move slower than the others i would be a bummer. Besides, how would a low lvl hin or gnome escape from deadly encounters? In a computer games we are limited by an engine. so no matter how imaginative you are to think of an escape route.. it's not happening unless a dm sees.

About the carrying capacity I would be forward if and only if provided small size equipment. I mean, a hin's full plate weights the same as a much bigger half-orc's full plate.

[Dorn]

In terms of movement rates.

a) I gotta disagree with you Nick old buddy old pal. If it means the little fella's need to run on occasion to keep up with the tall folk then thats fair enough. When i played a barb either people ran on occasion to keep up with him or hollered at him long and loud enough to get him to slow down and wait. Thats the way of things.

b) I do, however, kinda agree that due to the limitations of the computer game that having hin speeds lower than spawn speeds would make it kinda hard to see middle age. Thats giong to kill fun and lead to many tech-death applications to DMs.

However i love BHs reference to the Haze/Penitence armour equiping times and movement rate modifiers and would fully support their use.

[JspecWip]

Canon once again provides the solution for everyone that wants to be able to flee in terror. Its called the Run feat, if your going to go through the trouble of changing the speeds to fit pnp I'm sure that this feat could be implemented.

I think it would be a good thing to change the speed, but I'm way more concerned about the armour penalty to speed. This would greatly improve imersion, as well as give the heavy armours a drawback that is lacking currently. As it is now the only thing preventing any melee character from using them is a respect for canon, or they are dex based.
Limiting the Dodge branch of feats for those in Heavy Armour could provide another draw back to them, and is canon as well.

Plus you could finally use spring attack for pwning tanks...

[Dorn]

I would again strongly support this if it is cannon (the feat limiting etc). I almost always play warrior classes and this would help increase diversity in these type of PCs rather than the plate mail/tower shield clone. I am totally guilty of becoming one of these once as with no feats effected and so on it became almost a must to survive amongst the other metalheads.

*ok survive may be astrong word:) you know what i mean.

Of course i will complain about this further unbalancing warrior classes against mages and clerics later on.

[Mulu]

Reduced speed for short folk sounds like a recipe for disaster, though reduced speed for armor does make it a balance decision.

Armor equipping times? Is this just a time sink? You already can't change armor during combat, so I see no utility to this whatsoever other than to spend more time engaged in errands, in this case waiting for your armor to get on or off.

[Rumple C]

Pat old buddy old Pal, im still in favor of Reduced speed both for plate and for shorties. I reckon it would add a whole new dimension to the rp. Lets face it, a five year old kid cant keep up with an adults walking speed, nor could your buddy with thirty iron saucepans strapped to him (or armor) keep up.

Varied parties are fun. And i reckon shorties should have to alternate running and walking to keep up, and fighters being hassled (rp hassled) that their armor is slowinf the group would be neat. Armor choice would become a rp issue far more than a "how can i get the highest ac" issue.

...

im mixing threads here, ah well

[HDB]

........ How about we limit them to their 3.5 movement rates and carrying abilities?.......i think it would be a nice bit of realism.....

To stand on RP for its dramatics and not for logistics would be my sell point on this. Take a census on the realms covering the common characters created D&D fiction and tell me we've not a disproportionate ratio of races.
Coming, I foresee less demihumans if we choose these PnP qualities IG, and a larger choice of ALFAns choosing them for there unique racial stereotypes when they are choosen.

Currently social scene is greywash with a personality characteristic spectrum. Drama has no bounds while steroetypes are left undesired. Yes we are experts when it comes to roleplay of this setting, but with classes and races becoming irrelevant by fantastical canon exspansion, the last pillar of realism we can set upon is fair representation of the realms as they are.
Hence a call to play the roles as they are and trust them to foster a world close to FR these days, as it were, the roots must stay with Gary(Gygax) and the realism with Ed(Greenwood).

[Rumple C]

im having trouble translating the above.

so in reply...

[HDB]

I wasn't picking up the thread along its development, and rather addressing the opening opinion.

I see ALFA sucking more with races and classes being all alike.
And to add to it, I see ALFA worse off cause classes and races aren't restricted and then played in RP all the same. If a dwarf likes an orc then lets have the dwarf have IG/IC reason.
9 times out of 10, political correctness or sited individual abnormality, makes ALFA a bizarre take on the Forgotten Realms.

.....HDB.