NWN2: Crafting

TheCrazyGoblin · Post by **TheCrazyGoblin** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:08 am

Overfilled Cup wrote:Low reward repeatable statics would be nice to have. I have been wondering lately why CoA still has this maxed out capacity. Playing there for awhile I noticed there is always something to do. Now mind you the RP and play is not what we want for ALFA but there is something to be taken from there. They have a wonderful masterwork crafting system which is unique and includes things such as jewelry making and tanning. ALFA would benefit with this type of lagg time creativity..

Danubus wrote:OC a crafting system would be awesome for ALFA, but we have seen time and again a lot of folks hate crafting in the higher up HDM/ Admin ranks and will either look for the perfect system (which there is none) or they will totally trash something thats supposed to just be fun and make a thousand rules for it and make people follow strict crafting guidelines. Crafting for fun could be done where a lot of things could be made that wouldnt have an impact on the game itself. Make the items where a vendor wouldnt buy them and allow only players to trade/buy from each other. (say brewing or baking for instance). I understand the need for some stricter rules for magic items and weapons, but for basic crafting a system could be worked out to allow anyone to do it and it be there to pass time and just to have fun.

NWN2 Crafting - worthy of a thread on its own!

What are the plans going to be for crafting in NWN2. Sort it out early enough and it can be included in the base mod.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:50 am

Before I begin, personally I am against crafting in many ways. I do not believe that crafting should be able to be used as a profit making system for PCs, to a certain limit. No magical crafting, IMO, should be done via scripts. Just thought I'd state what I feel, before explaining what I think will happen, just so you can pick up any biases

ALFA has had a long history with crafting (or a complete lack of crafting). During my time here, atleast 3 different systems have been tried, all failing. When I first joined, I can remember there was an entire server (I think) dedicated to working a crafting system towards ALFAs needs. That left after the quake. Now, if you look at the top of the Beta Server forums you'll notice another crafting type. That disappeared with U'lias. Then the 3rd type came with Joe and NW. He'd introduced CNR. The Admin of the time told him it had to be removed, so he left.

We've never really had much luck with crafting. Prehaps it's that we're looking for a perfect system - something taht doesn't exist. Or prehaps we, at heart, really don't want one. What ever it is, I think it will carry quite heavily onto NWN2.

A lot of it will depends entirely upon what is released with NWN2. If they have a good crafting system come with the box, it may be very likely that ALFA will adopt a similar system, with a few changes here and there to make it suited for our world. If not, I can't see it been very likely at all that ALFA will EVER get automated crafting.

To me, the ideal system of crafting, as I stated before, would be a partially automated one. Rangers would be able to fletch their own arrows, rogues their own traps and lock picks, bards their own instruments. Things that they should be able to do given time. Outside of that, it would take considerable skill, with not much gain, to focus entirely on crafting. Crafting, IMO, is a low risk, low gain occupation, and therefore shoudl be made to represent that if it is introduced to ALFA. If you wish to live as a blacksmith, you won't be able to afford that +5 Hammer of Smithing. You'll be able to pay the rent, without much worry, though. You'll be able to eat a desent meal each day. You won't be able to build extention on your house, nor that secret passage way under neith it to that hidden shrine, without a LOT of sacrafice.

Crafting, if introduced, should not be able to subsitute adventuring. One is high risk, high gain. One is low risk, low gain.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:54 am

NWN2 is supposed to come with a crafting system and we can only hope its not shat. I remember the Obsidian folks mentioning it before, but not the fine details. I personally hope we just dont rule lawyer the stuff to death. Its supposed to be fun, something to do when a DM isnt on, etc. At least thats what Id like to see...basic stuff like making bread, beer, minor tinkets. Maybe depending on how many lvls a person takes in crafting (hopefully there is a general crafting and not just armor and weapon) that any items of real concern will somehow be done only with a DM. Theres ways to keep it from getting out of hand without a jillion rules.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:58 am

I can't see them making it possible to make non-combat/adventure orientated stuff. If you look at the type of game NWN is, I don't think it will be a high priority on their list, as much as I would like to see it possible.

I agree though, any items of concern should be done via a DM. I'm still of the belief that people should have to undergo some big quest for any magic item they get, whether it be crafted or not.

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:14 am

Non-magical crafting and consumables aren't completly outside the envelope. Permanant magical crafting via scripts is a serious red flag. Even if your 'graduation project' from the mage's academy is a +1 ammy, we can expect to see too many of them.

Overfilled Cup · Post by **Overfilled Cup** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:15 am

FYI: My reference was toward a low reward/low gain system. I wouldnt want anything that gave much myself as it is low risk.

Obtaining the materials however may not be so low risk. Skins for tanners/ ore for smiths. It gives players something to do and will keep them logged in.

If the player has to spend 160gp in material to make a 180gp item..well, not much room for profit there. My opinion is players would be happy with a system that would put them near to market price with crafting an item as long as there was a chance to RP and do some adventuring around the base materials.

We also have weight/encumberance which will cut down on players over producing items. if that is not sufficient then add another break piont along there that would discourage abuse of a system. Other than that we have only improved our game world.

If the decisions makereagree to agree on simple like Masterwork crafting that will give us a launching platform for the rest or if anything else could/should be added.

Just a thought
OC

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:41 am

OC - the problem is margin. If you make a crafting system that costs as much as you can buy it, why bother. OTOH, if you have one where you need to travel for 3 hours to get the first part, fight some mobs and travel back 2 hours to get the second, then spend an hour at an anvil for a 10% markup, someone will figure out how to Our Ford those first two steps and double thier wealth every 7.5 hours.

Non-magical MW crafting (or even RP design crafting) is fine, but we need to avoid profit for Adventurers if we wish to keep control of gold. Supply side economics 4tw.

darrenhfx · Post by **darrenhfx** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:07 pm

If you combine having minor crafting facilities available in the hub areas that Coach mentioned in another post, you have another way of maintaining players on servers for longer periods of time.

I agree that economic balance should determine how and if we allow crafting, and its not going to be interesting to everyone, but it may provide a small hook to keep people logged in when there is no DM available.

TheCrazyGoblin · Post by **TheCrazyGoblin** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:45 pm

Why not have it so that any goods made cannot be sold except via a DM, then an eye can be kept on the crafters.

Overfilled Cup · Post by **Overfilled Cup** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:25 pm

TGB..one word encumberance..

TheCrazyGoblin · Post by **TheCrazyGoblin** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:33 pm

Overfilled Cup wrote:TGB..one word encumberance..

Soooo..... I would assume that these crafters have premises that they work from... premises with persistant chests perhaps.....

Overfilled Cup · Post by **Overfilled Cup** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:36 pm

Im certain forges and persistent chests..basically a shop are rather expensive and not available to the fledgling crafter. They would have to rent them from an established crafter. Persistency might be out of reach..But when obtained certainly would not be free.

TheCrazyGoblin · Post by **TheCrazyGoblin** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:41 pm

Overfilled Cup wrote:They would have to rent them from an established crafter. Persistency might be out of reach..But when obtained certainly would not be free.

Ideal money sinks, if it's required to keep the crafters "high income" in check!

darrenhfx · Post by **darrenhfx** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:43 pm

Well thats just another way of balancing the gains.

If only so much can be stored in a persistant chest and the pc is charged a monthly storage fee, they will only be able to craft a limited amount of goods.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:31 pm

We having fishing scripts where players can make ~35gp/RL hour with a 5GP investment and no skill points required. How is that better than making crafting available where characters can make a bit more profit than that (to account for skill points being needed), disallowing MW and magical items to start with?