NWN2: Reputation-based quest system

Baalster · Post by **Baalster** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:33 pm

When you log on the server, you have a set of default values for the PCs against your different custom factions. This will be the PCs starting point, based on canon. A new adventurer will not necessarily be trusted right away, and there are certainly ways to bring that reputation up and down.

The quest systems used today doesn't take this into account. It's up to the player to decide whether he will accept a quest. But frankly - would all the quest offers really been given ??

I've make this system. Using the starting reputation values, it's up to the player to define his place among the factions. Factions are enemies. You can choose to stay out of this, but then you won't be trusted by either. You can choose to go with one, but then the other will not like it.

This was the background for my reputation/quest system. Based on the script-less quest system from the base module, some of Memneth's reputation work in Daggerdale and Dalelands, and me making it all persistent and integrating it into something that actually works.

No more waltzing through the statics. Action now has a reaction. Become friends with the wrong people and others will persieve that and act upon it. An example would be someone doing friendly things with the Zhentarim faction. The Harpers will consider that a bad thing, and may give the PC wrong information, even fatal information... or just simply refuse to speak to him or her.

The quest system consists of the following checks:
- class
- level
- reputation value for questgiver's own NPC (must be of a certain value or higher)
- reputation value for an enemy faction of the NPC (must be of a certain value or less)

The quests uses a persistant journal. Currently the only problem is that one NPC can't give multiple quests. This is because the script-less quest system uses local variables on the NPC to determine what quest it is, what items are involved, item, gold and xp reward etc.

The challenge in NWN1 is that servers are near by. Factions exists on both servers, yet they behave differently. With NWN2 and regions, this should work great.

Once WH goes into beta3 (with the release of hak3), I will release the mod on the DM FTP, and allow people to hack it to pieces and take what they want. Unfortunately I'm no packager. I code and make things work, with no regards to reusability of the code. I do see this system as a valuable asset to a NWN2 base module.

Baalster
HDM 081 Whitehorn

Dorn · Post by **Dorn** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:51 pm

Sounds awsome.

How does this scenario play out.

You're a memeber of the Shadow Thieves in WD (if they are there). You do quests for them and go up in their estimation.

Now as you're being very careful and your a good thief you dont get caught so that technically the Watch doesn't know your an nasty denzion of the underworld.

Do the Waterdeep Watch faction still treat you with dislike? (ie kinda meta knowledge?)

I dont see this as a huge issue even if it does. It just means you cant do the static but could still have a DM let you become 'friendly' with the watch until you bring it down from the inside with non-static quests.

I was just wondering

Baalster · Post by **Baalster** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:56 pm

Dorn wrote:Sounds awsome.

How does this scenario play out.

You're a memeber of the Shadow Thieves in WD (if they are there). You do quests for them and go up in their estimation.

Now as you're being very careful and your a good thief you dont get caught so that technically the Watch doesn't know your an nasty denzion of the underworld.

Do the Waterdeep Watch faction still treat you with dislike? (ie kinda meta knowledge?)

I dont see this as a huge issue even if it does. It just means you cant do the static but could still have a DM let you become 'friendly' with the watch until you bring it down from the inside with non-static quests.

I was just wondering

DMs will have a wand to adjust the faction. Also you can script it so that only senior Watch members will have the knowledge of any notorious Shadow Thieves members. And they can even be given a % chance to have it correct. Remember that it's up to the quest designers to decide what the quest-giver should know. But in essence, this system assumes that if you raise in reputation in one faction, there is a chance that someone else knows. It's all in the design...

For instance, on Whitehorn, the Zhents is a major presence in the southern part of the server. With Zhentil Keep close by, and Citadel of the Raven with it's thousands of soldiers, the Zhents will be played as bad as canon says they are. Not pussywhipped walkovers. They trust noone, and more than anything they don't trust each other. So spies will make sure that if something happens out of the ordinary, someone will know. Zhents on Whitehorn will be a global faction. Waste one too many, and you'll be hunted like a dog. (entire faction go hostile). The beauty of it - once the player decide that this is the way the PC should go - is that this is persistant. DMs can make adjustments on individual basis, but this is how the game mechanics can help DMs and players to shape the PC when no DM is on. Using the wand a DM can read and adjust the faction reputation.

Baalster
HDM 081 Whitehorn

If anyone wants a demo, catch me in chat ...

Squamatus · Post by **Squamatus** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:48 pm

Could there be a way to have an undroppable item that could save faction reps? That way if someone crosses a border the new server's Zhent faction updates in response to his existing rep?

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:06 pm

That wouldnt be a problem as long as ALFA finally gets true persistancy.

Baalster · Post by **Baalster** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:11 pm

Squamatus wrote:Could there be a way to have an undroppable item that could save faction reps? That way if someone crosses a border the new server's Zhent faction updates in response to his existing rep?

I've thought of that. It's doable. But then again ... some factions doesn't span servers. Zhents most certainly do, but are the reputation so strong that it has an impact across servers, it can be changed manually by the DMs.

My initial thought was to use NWNX2 and databases for this, to make it a global system, but how much sense would it make to have the zhent reputation near Zhentil Keep have the same merit in for instance Selgaunt. The region model of NWN2 however would be perfect for this.

I think it would be absolutely plausable that someone could be a star Zhentarim agent with a massive reputation in Whitehorn and Zhentil Keep, and pose as an non-Zhent follower in the Dalelands. Granted we DMs can choose to change that, but that's our business ...

Baalster
HDM 081 Whitehorn

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:10 pm

Aye, the *few* exceptions for epic reputations should likely stay DM controlled anyhow. I imagine CvC would be quite interesting as Harpers & Zhents start outing one another on nearby servers.

Baalster · Post by **Baalster** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:47 pm

Just did a quicksie test with a party. As long as the PC speaker is meeting the criterias, the entire party will get the quest. And when you return with the item(s), of course the PC speaker once again have to meet the criterias, and the entire party gets a reward. A reward equally devided between the PCs.

Thanks to Twiggs and Ak3mi for testing this with me.

Baalster

Squamatus · Post by **Squamatus** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:11 pm

B "As long as the PC speaker is meeting the criterias, the entire party will get the quest. And when you return with the item(s), of course the PC speaker once again have to meet the criterias, and the entire party gets a reward. A reward equally devided between the PCs"

Isnt that a bad thing? Will every member of the party be able to accept the quest on seperate occasions and thus allow everyone to be rewarded secondhand? Or does it keep track of the reward whether you were the quest taker or not?

Grey Pilgrim · Post by **Grey Pilgrim** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:19 pm

im guessing that everyone who gets a reward also gets a variable that says theyve done the quest and cant do it again.

Baalster · Post by **Baalster** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:29 pm

Grey Pilgrim wrote:im guessing that everyone who gets a reward also gets a variable that says theyve done the quest and cant do it again.

This is excactly how it works.

Baalster
HDM 081 Whitehorn

coach · Post by **coach** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:43 pm

i like it if:

NPCs from across the server don't change their reactions to me because of something I did elsewhere of which they have no idea of knowing

and

skills are integrated that could affect factions' reactions (persuade, intimidate, bluff, etc)

but as mentioned, all this is under the control of the scripters

Baalster · Post by **Baalster** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:10 pm

coach wrote:i like it if:

NPCs from across the server don't change their reactions to me because of something I did elsewhere of which they have no idea of knowing

and

skills are integrated that could affect factions' reactions (persuade, intimidate, bluff, etc)

but as mentioned, all this is under the control of the scripters

Actually this is more a design issue. I would consider a faction either something with a strong presence in a geographically limited area. As for server-wide factions (global factions) they should be kept to a minimum. You can also choose to have some "odd ones" not belonging to the actual faction. I will have zhents not belonging to a faction for use in DM quests and DM controlled encounters where I will use a wand to adjust reputation afterwards if needed.

As for the reactions to skills (persuade, intimiate, bluff), it's also in the hands of the designer. The buildup of the conversation decides everything. Anything is possible in terms of allowing or disallowing use of skills. It's currently not part of the system, but it can easily be added. It's just a matter of adding more variables and more starting condidion scripts. It's probably better of just having genering skill check scripts (low, mid,hight) for each skill ... Most servers have them already, and there are some standard bioware scripts for it as well.

Baalster
HDM 081 Whitehorn