Travel System: Take 27

Blackwill · Post by **Blackwill** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:04 pm

Sorry. I just disagree Mulu. I have to give a full score of points to Mayhem.

This system just encourages more immersion, and more RP. Basically it could be great in ALFA.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:07 pm

Ronan wrote:There is no style of PnP, its all the individual DM. Some are extremely simulationist. I'd say D&D has far more simulationist rules than ALFA implements, by a large, large margin. In PnP the DM is just free to ignore them.

Just to clarify, by "PnP style" I was referring to a solely campaign style game, where you only log in for DM'ed sessions, and you are basically just using NWN as a means of animating your miniatures, automating combat and providing some scenery and a battlemap. ALFA is, in contrast, allegedly a persistent world, where you can and often do play without a DM being present.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:07 pm

Blackwill wrote:This system just encourages more immersion, and more RP.

How does being logged out encourage immersion and RP? Seems to me the only thing it encourages is single-server style gaming. And if that's your goal, why not just make a single server?

Blackwill · Post by **Blackwill** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:10 pm

Mulu wrote:
Blackwill wrote:This system just encourages more immersion, and more RP.
How does being logged out encourage immersion and RP? Seems to me the only thing it encourages is single-server style gaming. And if that's your goal, why not just make a single server?

If you read my first post. I made it clear this shouldn't be the only way of travel.
So there is nothing making a PC travel this way. Secondly, like Mayhem said, there should be some way of staying logged in, while following the caravan. Including the random encounters.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:16 pm

Actually, the only thing you made clear in your first post is that travel should take RL time. How much would probably depend on the distance, with overseas travel presumably requiring an extensive logout period.

Now, I'm sure ALFA NWN2 will end up with long RL rest cycles, long RL travel times, and very little interaction with others since your game time will be occupied by various chores you have to do like weapon and armor maintenance, breakage and replacement, gathering components, all solo of course... in other words, it will finally become FRPGSims, with a little lesbian elf cyboring on the side. And they'll be about 12 people playing it, but they'll really be enjoying themselves as they finally have their perfect world.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:52 pm

Mulu wrote:ALFA is, in contrast, allegedly a persistent world, where you can and often do play without a DM being present.

Indeed. And that persistence is all the more reason for a travel system that doesn't let you cross half way around the world and back in the same time that somebody else barely has time to walk from one end of the city to the other.

"Greetings, my bold friend! Since I saw you last, I've travelled to the farthest end of the realm and back, slaying many dangerous beasts and earning much gold and glory! Now, when did we last see each other?"

"Just before breakfast this morning. You're just in time for a spot of lunch."

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:29 pm

Mayhem - much as I'm for a psuedo-realistic travel system, nobody's talking about teleport at will (at least not that I'm aware of).

Regardless what we implement, I'll be in favor of any *standardized* travel scripts so we can stop the debate on how much server hopping is too much. Once we have scripts in place, we can alter the scripts if people find a way to abuse them - no need to spend resources investigating exactly who did what when and where :)

Keith Mac · Post by **Keith Mac** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:08 pm

but not the idea of only so many caravans leaving a day..after all if you have a big party traveling together they would all ride the same caravan.

On TPI Syntax scripted the boats to take all local PC's on one trip.....I would assume we could do the same for caravans...hence solving the "Big Party" traveling together dilemna?

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:08 pm

Yes.

Caravan is available during certain windows. If anyone hires the caravan, it leaves then (one price for whole party). There may be multiple caravans for alternate destinations, or the caravan could have several possible destinations chosen by the client.

If anyone hires onto the caravan, they are taken at the end of the window, or when it is hired. Paying customers will be encamped in a tent (and may be logged off); guards will be encamped around the caravan and may be beset by brigands/wolves.

Likely, there will be a minimum complement of guards plus PCs. [Greypeaks] would likely have a level requirement to hire on. Boats would be the same concept.

We may eventually add 'shipwrecked' and 'lost' to the random encounters.

Keith Mac · Post by **Keith Mac** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:31 pm

Now, I'm sure ALFA NWN2 will end up with long RL rest cycles, long RL travel times, and very little interaction with others since your game time will be occupied by various chores you have to do like weapon and armor maintenance, breakage and replacement, gathering components, all solo of course... in other words, it will finally become FRPGSims, with a little lesbian elf cyboring on the side. And they'll be about 12 people playing it, but they'll really be enjoying themselves as they finally have their perfect world.

I do believe most of Mulu's words ring true here.....I completely understand the need for some people to push for IG realism to be brought as far as possible....but the amount of those people simply IMHO wouldnt fill one server.....

Long rest cycles(beyond one turn) are pretty corny....

Long drawn out travel time is frusterating(try the boat from cormyr to TPI

)

Armor and weapon maintanance is outright rediculous.....

Crafting I guess would only be for the PC's who wished to do so....so I have no current opinion....I guess it couldn't hurt?

I am all for anything we can implement(Such as these caravan and Sea Fairing travel scripts) that will add to the feel of realism....but only if it doesn't cause a Roadblock to ANY players ability to have a FUN time!(ie; as BW said if you don't like the travel script then you can still walk)...We just need to keep our eye on the ball and make sure that every player can enjoy the game their own way(Obviously staying within the pillars of ALFA).........

Another example would be resting: Script beds/bedrolls where people who wish to have their toon sleep for one RL hour actually do so if someone feels compelled....but don't force the peeps without such nonsensical time to do so(And yeah I think I just made that word up

)

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:12 pm

I agree, hence my suggestion that we allow *offline* time to be taken into consideration when travelling.

So you can log off in Yartar, and come back to your PC after a say at work to find yourself in Waterdeep.

Offline time should also be included for sleeping, resting and healing, but those are issues for another thread entirely.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:23 pm

Fionn wrote:Pay for safe travel, hire for % risk sounds good. Obviously, downtime travel isn't possible with risk.

I don't like the 8 hour or 2/day meta rules. Simply have caravans on (random?) schedules. Perhaps include an express that can usually be hired immediately.

+1. Good suggestion, Inaubryn.

Distance between servers can continue to be represented as a fixed number of areas from areas of interest to the server portals themselves, and as early polling seemed to indicate, builders want the discretion to decide these distances for themselves. As long as these distances don't vary by player, we can collectively adapt our "spatial awareness" to what has been built. It shouldn't affect our role play.

Inaubryn · Post by **Inaubryn** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:17 am

I agree. Also, Cipher, I've let Ronan know and now you, that I've told my brother to fill out an app and such to become a member. Providing he's accepted he's gonna bring some much needed scripting help into the fray. He is planning on being a game designer, has a degree in computer science technology and speeks techno-geek. You and Ronan can help get him up to speed on NWScript. This will make it possible to make systems like this a reality. So I say we continue to hash this out and get somethin' concrete in the cue. Then when we get a hold of the game, we can see if this is actually doable.

Inaubryn · Post by **Inaubryn** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:23 am

okay, this is a really really rough map with example caravan routes and boat routes between the currently proposed servers.

Red Lines/Circles - server borders.

Black Lines - caravan routes - these are the routes caravans would take between areas/servers.

Green Circles (may look black) Caravan waypoints - caravans would stop here to let passengers or guards off. Reaching a waypoint counts as one trip.

Blue Lines - boat routes - these are the routes boats would take between areas/servers.

Again, a PC could take up to two trips (reach two circles) per day/8 in-game hours or one real time hour. For example, a PC could go from WD to Neverwinter as easily as clicking the caravan, and then the destination on the world map. Then the PC could click the second caravan and go from Neverwinter to Icewind Dale by doing the same thing.

This doesn't mean the PC has to wait an hour to travel on either caravan. They can travel to their destination immediately, but they would have to wait an hour before making a return trip. A PC cannot use teh same caravan in the same 8 hour game time span and couldn't take more than two caravans in the same 8 hour game time span.

By boat would be the same. A PC could go from the Moonshaes to Zazesspur, in the course of 8 in-game hours (one hour RT). But, if they wanted to return to the Moonshaes they wouldn't be able to do so for another 8 in-game hours. However, they could decide to go on from Zazesspur to Halagard in that same 8 in-game hour span. But, that PC wouldn't be able to make a return trip for at least another 8 in-game hours.

Alternatively, we could do as Fionn suggested and have caravans appear at random times or fixed times. One caravan at dawn, and one at noon. The above would apply as to travelin' from destination to destination, but you would have to catch the caravans at those times.

Ultimately, you would have paying passengers on a caravan with say a 15% of getting waylaid during the journey and you would have PC guards who would have a random % chance of getting waylaid (base 15%) during the journey. The guards would be paid two gold per level to guard and the passengers could pay a fixed fee or 5gp per level to ride.

It wouldn't be overly expensive to take a caravan for non-guards. It would ease up travel just a bit on PCs and it would enable people to get together a bit easier as well.

The amount of wait time between trips can be adjusted as well. Ideally, I'd like to have no more than three waypoints between servers. Any waypoints that fall between servers and other waypoints could be a random wilderness area with random spawns and such, where PCs have to make camp and DMs could hop on and run encounters or spawn adventures from this stage as well. There would be several wagons and campfires that represent different caravans going in various directions. Sorta like the travel server idea, except you wouldn't travel through it. It would just be a stop-over for PCs goin' the same direction or different directions. Ideally, multiple PCs could actually wind up here with multiple caravans and could form new parties, meet old friends, and new enemies, etc.

I think we can use this to alleviate a lot of the pain of getting together to play across server boundaries and actually have some fun with it too.

Thoughts?

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:54 am

I prefer having caravans and boats on schedules but with DM controls that allow us to skew the timers if need be - winter storms, pirate attacks, sea monsters...what have you. As for the rest, I'm fairly agnostic. As long as we implement a system, it's all six of one half dozen of the other to me.

Another capable hand would be a very welcome addition. There's lots of experience here in ALFA so it shouldn't take long for your brother to learn the ropes and be productive if he's committed to doing it. Glad to have him aboard.