Meeting skill requirements for PRcs

[orangetree]

Hi there...

I've a silly question. I don't suppose feats like skill focus, or one's natural bonuses (int for instance) are taken into account for access to prestige classes? It's only what you buy as skill points, right?

[dergon darkhelm]

No.

The skill requirements are in "ranks". That is, the actual individual skill chosen.

The total skill bonus doesn't factor in. Synergy bonuses, items, etc don't play a role.

[orangetree]

Rats... I'm trying to plan for a prc class but unfortunately invested a level too late on some skills... I didn't realise how demanding the requirements are... Anyway can't complain (on this- my fault entirely )quiet you

Looks like my choices are between a light rogue with very low skill progression but high magic.

A medium rogue with un optimised magic, some slightly poor skill progression but manageable.

Or a heavy rogue with optimised magic, an extra feat, but lower spell level..

Oh the decision! Let that be a lesson don't assume the class is the same as in the normal game.

[dergon darkhelm]

You might be a level or two delayed, but you can work towards it.

If you have specific questions feel free to PM me... or post... there are lots of folks who can help with the nuts & bolts mechanics of a build.

[Ithildur]

You might be a level or two delayed, but you can work towards it.

If you have specific questions feel free to PM me... or post... there are lots of folks who can help with the nuts & bolts mechanics of a build.

Ditto.

[orangetree]

Gosh darn you over powered humans!

Human sorcerers can make it to arcane trickster in 'only' 8 levels by triple classing (And I suppose any other sorc favoured race?)

Any non-human would take at least to 11 level.

Why are the skills to do this so diverse and hard to combine that only a human can pull it off... (Rhetorical question)

Decipher script: bards only
Escape artist: bard/rogue only
Disable device: rogue only
Know arcana: spellcaster - the only easy one.

(I'm just being humourous, but it is quite an astonishing difference between the races adaptability. It's like humans were made to multiclass. )

Edit: oh I am a fool! Decipher script is a rogue skill too on the wiki.. I've just been very bad at doing this. Anyone willing to kill and raise Lunette a few times

[Ithildur]

Not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that a human sorcerer can get AT in 8 levels in ALFA. You need 2d6 sneak attack (rogue3) and lvl 3 spells (sorc6 or wiz5)

Decipher script is also a class skill for wizards. Arcane Tricksters more commonly are wizards than sorcey; the PrC is reachable by lvl 9 with a rogue/wizard.

But yes, generally humans have some decided advantages as far as builds. However ALFA2 has had a very effective moon elven rogue/wiz Arcane Trickster. Honestly, it's probably not going to matter that much what the build is, especially in ALFA. People have played effective characters with awful builds.

[Zelknolf]

(I'm just being humourous, but it is quite an astonishing difference between the races adaptability. It's like humans were made to multiclass. )

To be fair, that's the advantage of being a human. Everyone else gets magic, special abilities, and higher primary stats. Humans get adaptability.

[causk]

i dare claim that strongheart haflings are mechanicly nearly as adaptible as humans and for many concepts superior. Long live our hobbit overlords.

As another Arcane trickster(AT) wannabe here my 2cents:
AT in nwn and in ALFA's typical lvl range is pretty terrible. The earliest you can take a level is 9. I would argue from a mechanics perspective you need at least several levels in it for it to be different than taking just another level in a casting class. Your core abilities, spells and sneak attack, do not synergize. 4 skillpoints per level do not immediately make a difference. The comparision with the Eldrich Knight is pretty damn galling. He only loses two casting levels and gets there two levels earlier.
But the concept is cool! The idea of a roguish spellcaster is probably as old as fantasy fiction. I personally love it and if you want to play a character that falls into the concept, i argue that you dont really have to worry about the PRC itself. You dont really need a single lvl in AT to be a roguish spellcaster or a spellcasting rogue. Unless of course you want to scale your character mechanicly into the post lvl 12 range. I dont think thats an issue anyone should be concerned about at this point.
SO dont worry about PRC requirements, just follow your concept/idea of the pc.

[orangetree]

I have that exact debate with myself right now causk. I've actually levelled focusing on what my character has been doing icly and... Yeah she's been doing pretty well clearing traps for the group so I put points there. Had I taken the very extreme detour she would have to lose one of those core skills that kept the group and herself alive.

I do love the idea of roguish chaoticlly wonderful spell casters. The concept can work just as well without AT... I suppose I am blinded by the idea of creating something unique and useful. EK might even make a lot more sense as those skills sync easily.

It's easier to even be a red dragon disciple then AT.

[orangetree]

Not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that a human sorcerer can get AT in 8 levels in ALFA. You need 2d6 sneak attack (rogue3) and lvl 3 spells (sorc6 or wiz5)

Decipher script is also a class skill for wizards. Arcane Tricksters more commonly are wizards than sorcey; the PrC is reachable by lvl 9 with a rogue/wizard.

But yes, generally humans have some decided advantages as far as builds. However ALFA2 has had a very effective moon elven rogue/wiz Arcane Trickster. Honestly, it's probably not going to matter that much what the build is, especially in ALFA. People have played effective characters with awful builds.

You are completely correct and thanks for setting me right there. How odd .. one would have thought sorcerers lend themselves to Arcane trickery. I never really liked wizards, I've always been intrigued to the ideas of natural blood talent and the RP that comes from it.

I might bin the AT Sorc concept but there is time yet to decide (if one survives that far) to try it.

[Xanthea]

1 rogue/wizard with Able Learner is basically a better Arcane Trickster.

[Zelknolf]

I'm not sure that's true in ALFA. Attack-focused spellcasters get a spell payload balanced for four...ish... fights per day, and our content tends to follow broad patterns of "click spawn until the PCs look scared" and so attack-focused spellcasters like wizards and sorcerers benefit from anything that gets infinite uses. Related: most successful wizards in ALFA are gishes (they shift that balance to being set to fight for a duration, instead of fighting to a given damage and effects output).

Even if there's no synergy, a NWN2 AT's sneak attack can serve the purpose that a 5e wizard's cantrips would.

[orangetree]

Again very valid point. When I played a pure sorcerer I was on a strict time limit. Especially if the group was idle. As soon as wards were gone.. That was it. I was a sitting duck. Spells lasted one fight and a half. I learned that if magic was not necessary don't use it. Don't ward up until reasonably needed.

Potions helped but if retreat or rest was not an option it made things incredibly scary. Bolts/arrows are the main staples of battle, the only thing that can last with any stamina.

Being a pure sorc was also an experience in poverty, with very high burn of items.

But at least we got a familiar.

I learned that even one splash of rogue is an incredible increase in survival. vast skills, a sneak 1d6 sneak attack, and potential to use certain skills as if it was magic such as hiding. Another level of rogue is another huge boost. The evasion feat is like a perma ward on you to protect entirely against many spells. Essential for low HP.

The trouble is to balance it as spell casters suffer terribly with spell progression in multiclass and none worse then sorcery.

But yeah If I did manage it... That extra sneak attack progression is very tempting.

[Xanthea]

I'm not sure that's true in ALFA.

It's still true. It's just that I've noticed that people play spellcasters in general very badly on ALFA. People are constantly wasting spells on things that they shouldn't be, both on blowing up inoffensive things that could be handled by the rest of the party and by using big flashy spells where lesser ones would suffice. Spellcasters aren't meant to deal with the hordes of minions, they're meant to save themselves until a dangerous fight and blow most of their spells winning that one.

Of course, that does rely on a DM actually giving you legitimate threats during the adventure and you being of a relatively similar level to the rest of the party. If there isn't going to be a challenge that you can make a big difference in at any point then you're going to be pretty useless whatever you do.