Shop Manikins

[Vintenar]

So, I am not sure how this could be done, but I have seen it in PWs on NWN1.

A shop would have a manikin which wears armor they sell (both a female and male version). Selecting the manikin would start a conversation where one chooses from subsections, Light armor > Studded Leather > Seraphic Studded Leather etc. At which point the manikin would be shown wearing that armor.

In Mythdrannor we had a system like this, only it could then also change your appearance to then look like what the manikin looked like, (along with changing any other body parts) but that is a rather advanced functionality. This more simplified version would at least make it possible to see what the armor looks like you are interested in buying before you do buy it. Just like you would be able to if one was really in a shop.

Last thing anyone wants to do is drop 1500 gp on some armor to realize you don't like the way it looks.

As I said, I am not sure how it would be scripted, as I have no experience in the matter, but I would be willing to help any way I could if it was something people wanted.

[oldgrayrogue]

I have seen these on other NWN2 PW's. Literally a line of manikins where you can see what the armor you are about to purchase looks like. I am hugely in favor of some way to see what an item looks like before you drop huge amounts of gold on it. If not manikins then maybe a script that allows you to "try something on" in the shop. I have no clue how to script but would be willing to search the vault for something suitable if there is a chance it would be implemented.

[Vintenar]

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... ail&id=125 Is one of the few things I have seen on NWN Vault. It has already been decided however that this would take too much work when a better solution could be made since this mod ads it's own blueprint list to the game which may not compile with the current one in place.

Another option may be to make a script that allows a player to sell an item back to a vendor for full price if you bought it from them and it has not passed hands. However, I could see that presenting a problem as each item would have to be flagged per vendor. Alternatively, any vendor could buy back for full price but only after X amount of short time...

All and all though, a manikin just seems like an easier solution.

[Vintenar]

What about possibly screenshots of some of the items with the names associated with them?

[AsteroidX]

What about integrating a crafting station with the "finishing and tinting capabilities". I see it in work on other PW and does not seem to be a big burden on resources but I am also looking into this more to see what is what. Might be a tease. Might not.

[mr duncan]

What about integrating a crafting station with the "finishing and tinting capabilities". I see it in work on other PW and does not seem to be a big burden on resources but I am also looking into this more to see what is what. Might be a tease. Might not.

Good idea, great one in fact. Ive seen this on other servers too, while waiting for TSM to go live. Worked great and being able change your own apperarance would take a lot of hassle out of the hair of the DMs who import our custom gear for us.

J

[AsteroidX]

After selling a few children to scruplous characters donating my left kidney to poor Indians and eating various foods that should not be tried I plucked the following from the vault.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... ail&id=127

I am a huge fan would like to know what others think and have forwarded to tech dept to have there own look.

IMO the customizer is the best there is. The drawback is there is a full crafting system involved with the hak. I do not nor cannot tell if it meets ALFA muster there. My question is can the armor/weapon finisher be pulled for our use via wand/aka crafting station.

[AcadiusLost]

At a glance, looks like a pretty clever approach. Rather than wait for Obsidian to get around to giving us the functions to change appearance, they've used a NWNx4 plugin to do it. I believe I passed this one over before thinking it was mostly about crafting, which has been such a can of worms in the past, that I didn't really want to get into it.

It's quite possible we could retrofit their customization tricks into a non-crafting context with a bit of work. Some will depend on how much of their system is hardcoded into the NWNx4 plugin, and how much is manged via nwscript inside the module.

This might be a pretty challenging entry-level project for a Tech helper, since it will mean juggling NWNx4 as well as the ACR, but it'd also make a nice learning tool for getting to know how all the nuts and bolts behind the scenes work. If I can't find anyone up to the challenge, I'll get to investigating it myself eventually, but it'd be a ways down in the queue.

Volunteers?

[Vintenar]

I would be willing to help since the visual aspects of the game are in my keen interest and this is one thing in particular I have been very interested in.

However, with as little knowledge as I have on the subject of scripting in general, let alone NWN2, my offering might not be any better than having someone who knows do it, since I would need a large amount of walkthrough or tutorial.

[AsteroidX]

It's quite possible we could retrofit their customization tricks into a non-crafting context with a bit of work. Some will depend on how much of their system is hardcoded into the NWNx4 plugin, and how much is manged via nwscript inside the module

From what I experienced they are seperated to some extent. You craft at one location. Customizing is done at a seperate station that no crafting is done at. The server I got the info from requires SP invested into craft armor/ Craft weapon to use the finisher. Cannot tell if its hardcoded into the system or just a PW feature.

The hak itself comes with excellent documentation (according to the comments section).

I think the only "fault" I can think of is that with the customizer you could for example make a set of leathers "appear" as plate mail etc. Through the options offered. But that would be a RP issue more then functionality as it does not effect AC or other bits. I will take a closer look at the abilities of changing the variety of armor to ensure it does not effect Armor Checks and weight as such as these would be considerations I am sure. Will report back.

The other benefit is less "custom" items being added as you can make what you want out of a base item. Less HDM needing to import items for PC's etc. It does appear that at one point there was a bug with duplicating items but recent comments show this may have been fixed and would be a steikable offense if abused on ALFA. My own use of the system has not produced duplicating and I have moved through the options "fast" as there was a good number of options.

It further customizes as the appearance options are seperate like you can choose base plate with x options for customizing but if you choose the leather option you get a completely different set of customized looks. We would have to place some trust in players to stick with the "base armor type" or itleast not deviate in a way as to give players a false sense of the players look. IE a new player walking in "plate" appearance and actually wearing padded armor. Oh and did I mention that clothing can be customized as well. There is a cloth selection...hoods and helms...cloaks...etc.

The one thing it talks about is the sets we have where helms are already put on or quivers etc would be a poor match with this system. This would be a tech issue I am not knowledgeable of. But might take a chunck of deleting some items already in game that use this feature to fix this. I have been a poor fan of sets that come with quivers hats hoods capes anyway as that reduces a players ability to customize rather then enhances it. Even in the current ALFA we have cloaks/hoods and helms..we do not need them auto added to a piece when we buy from armorer. Just an added thought. There is vfx available now for quivers and swords but those are human sized only.

I also am under the belief that you have to have the hak integrated that "allows" a particular look to be gained. Such as a shield hak to allow the multitude of shield options.

And the tinter.......color cusomization.....oohh mmyy.

Myself I put some level of trust in ALFA players not to abuse the system.

Not being a tech person I am only seeing the system in use from a player view and can only report on the results of it and effects it may have IG and RP wise. So that is what I am looking at.

I will say I am an appearance player too and customizing is a big thrill for my characters so do not think me pushy just passionate for this or another customizer to be added. And hey did I mention vfx are available for quivers and swords at the belt now ?

[oldgrayrogue]

Two thumbs up. Any customization option would be most welcome. Especially by non tech savvy persons like me.

[Brokenbone]

System like this makes sense for "new" armor... so long as honor system etc. exists for not changing torsos around too much. Like walking around in AC8 platemail that looks like a negligee, or otherwise pretending to be a soft target in CvC or other contexts, then "suprise, you didn't know I was wearing something this heavy under my t-shirt!" I would assume (correctly or not) that it may make best sense if somehow the "first customization is free" (maybe something subtle can get done to the item's tag, or some mark in a database, or an INT slapped on the item), in order to represent buying a new item from a merchant, you buy it in a particular style. Yes that's still abstract when a perfect suit of full plate should take weeks to forge, but they happen to have a style in your size, your preferred model, whatever, but such are the weaknesses of prêt-à-porter armor, or the strength if you consider the instant gratification needs of a PW.

Later customizations may cost $$$. I haven't ever seen any suggested guidelines for this in print, except as relate to Full Plate... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#fullPlate

The suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4×100) gold pieces.

Maybe just do a flat 10%-20% of the item's value, to tailor / color / customize it, assuming it's more than a few minutes after a purchase (such as you hauling it back from an evil lair of someone who wore armor). This may be applicable to magic armor as well, but it's a % of a higher value, representing the additional care and whatnot that a craftsman may put into fiddling with the item without ruining it... again, since it's a guaranteed success, maybe it's worth it (i.e., 150gp to make ugly full plate pretty, or 0gp if you buy it off the rack and make it pretty). The cost though also represents "making over" armor in such a way that original owners or associates of original owners mightn't detect stolen property. "Hey, you killed my friend (in the secret CvC I only know about OOCly), I recognize his shield on your arm!"

...

I do recognize NWN1 systems, I think it was the "Milamber" customizer we use here and there in ALFA, though not everywhere, had some kind of cost associated with use, seemed that the higher the AC, the higher the cost, but I never looked into the guts of the system enough, except to know it could present a lot (but not all) appearances, and a hell of a lot slower than someone technically proficient could do their own tooling, erfing, and working with a patron DM. Anyhow, net of my suggestion is that sometimes customization may be free or negligible costs, other times, it might be significantly costly. It is quite possible that some items may be out of scope of remodelling, the Milamber one I know was incapable of doing anything with "Plot" flagged items. Perhaps something about a CopyItem function was stopped by it. Happened to a PC with "Lacuum Mage Robes Rank IV" or something like that from Arabel. Can't say if the same problem will exist in this package, it can be seen as either a weakness or a strength, I guess, if DMs wish particular magic garments to always look the same (maybe a woodsy green uniform of some elven scouting brigade with +5 magical hide buff will always look woodsy and green, even if someone who'd rather "urban it up" has a paintbrush, the thing repels weaponblack and such... due to the Plot flag, or spooky elven magic, take your pick).

[oldgrayrogue]

I view armor and clothing customization as just an aid to RP. I agree that it should be against the rules to make full plate look like cloth or leather but what's the big deal if a PC wants a blue set of leathers instead of brown or drab gray? Or if he wants a set of padded but with cool looking shoulder pads etc? IMO its part of the visual enjoyment of the game. No need to bog it down in a bunch of rules.

[mr duncan]

I view armor and clothing customization as just an aid to RP. I agree that it should be against the rules to make full plate look like cloth or leather but what's the big deal if a PC wants a blue set of leathers instead of brown or drab gray? Or if he wants a set of padded but with cool looking shoulder pads etc? IMO its part of the visual enjoyment of the game. No need to bog it down in a bunch of rules.

Pure, golden, genius. Folks should also be allowed to wear a chain shirt under robes too, as long as the weight and stats are the right amount for the protection worn, Id rather just trust our players.

J

[AsteroidX]

This has been made as easy as can possibly as expected from a virtual platform.

Anyone with just a little bit more tech savy then myself (none) looked over the documentation on this system ?

I do not or am not aware that ALFA uses a lot of custom Hak files for armor/weapons. The less that are there when installing this system the easier it is. More can be added at anytime as needed/wanted. From what I read the system once installed comes prefabed with all the NwN OC and MotB gear appearances.

What it does require is a consenting HDM as there are changes added to the server module.

As to BB's comment the finisher would be placed in an armorer or weaponsmith shop. We would have to trust the player not to change things around bunches. I do not see where there is cost associated to the system and is beyond me how to imagine inserting one, however precious Skill points could be required. Thus creating a pseudo craft ability. That would be optional and a community choice.